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Apolyton has turned on heavy spying, see C&D thread for details.
Furthermore, I consider that forum views should be fluid in width
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Have we built spies yet? Doing so for defense and to run counterespionage would make their stealing far more difficult.
Suffer Game Sicko
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Before we contact Apolyton, we need to decide what we hope to get out of such a message? They've already gotten what they wanted, there's nothing left to steal except junk like drama and HBR.
Not to say we shouldn't (or should) have a chat with them, but if we do, we need to go into it with a goal in mind. Saying "bad Apolyton" will not get us anything.
The goal could be to get them to not spend further EP on us, in which case we could go in with an attitude of "nicely executed. We will accept the stolen techs since it doesn't hurt us directly, but we trust that now that you have all the big techs we own that you don't you'll not be spending further EP on us for a while, especially since we're not likely to get any techs that are new to you for quite some time."
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Building a spy and sticking him in Weil der Stadt seems like a good idea, though the actual chances of catching spies is still painfully low. Counterespionage missions are better, but they've already taken what they came for. I do imagine that we'll start running them against all our neighbors are some point in the future, though, but that will be more for defending against sabotage than tech stealing.
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Maybe what we want is: "so of course you won't mind if we grab some of your techs, right?" Since they're ahead of us in beakers and beakers/turn
EitB 25 - Perpentach
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Threatening to counter-steal won't work. They're far ahead of us total EPs, due to their earlier focus on courthouses, running at least some spy specialists, and their infiltration from a GSpy.
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Besides, we wouldn't threaten to counter-steal, we'd just do it
Suffer Game Sicko
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I suggest we also send them an angry message that they should stop teching things. We can threaten to research techs ourselves if they don't comply.
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Maybe, but the discounts from them having our religion with shrine plus the silly huge stationary spy discount are pretty heavy. I bet banking, for example, would still be cheaper to steal than to directly research, though I haven't done the math.
That said, I think I'd rather spend our moral high ground points to get them to spend their EP elsewhere (if that's possible, of course). Not getting banking at a slight discount will not be a problem. Getting hammered by spy sabotage later on will.
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(July 8th, 2013, 14:42)SevenSpirits Wrote: I suggest we also send them an angry message that they should stop teching things. We can threaten to research techs ourselves if they don't comply.
If we send anything i would say, "Ncely done! We comgratulate you for the well executed use of spies, but we'd be less impressed if you use them to harm our cities"
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Very brief chat with Apolyton. I just tried to make him aware that we knew it was them, but I don't see any value at all in being confrontational. Seriously, they did nothing wrong and getting angry is totally irrational. We then talked about NAPs again briefly. (Reminder, NAP with them ends at T170)
Chat with Apolyton Wrote:scooter
That's quite a trio of tech steals you guys just managed
MZ
we no steal 
scooter
well, "acquired with spies"
Anyway, T170 is getting pretty close. Have you guys given any more thought to our NAP situation? 3:11 PM
MZ
our decision is that we will no extend our NAP. for explanation i will not deny that with some other nations we agreed not to do it to be able provide extra security
scooter
Hm okay. Thanks for the explanation
would you guys ever reconsider if we had a NAP that allowed you to cancel it if we attacked somebody?
I understand you want the chance to protect a neighbor if we invade them. but if we put in a clause that let you do that, it maintains the flexiblity while still giving us a mutual nap
(I'm not offering this concretely, I would have to talk with my team, Im just curious what your thoughts are)
MZ
I too would have to consider this
scooter
okay. as long as I know it's not a 100% "no" - I'll take it to my team to talk about. If they're interested, I'll send you a message sometime soon
MZ
sure, I too have to ask my team about it, it1s not 1005 no of course
100%*
scooter
okay well thanks. I'll get back to then
In summary:
1) Confirmed our suspicions that there is a few teams mutually agreeing to not take NAPs with us, which makes sense. I bet that's Apolyton, CivPlayers, and CFC
2) Floated the idea of a NAP with "out" clause that lets us consolidate in peace. He seems losely interested. We don't have to do this, but I think it's our best bet of getting a peaceful window for infrastructure
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