WW25 - Game Thread

[Mattimeo]

...yup, now I'm getting mislynched 'cause the last scum has the tiebreak, and left the confirmed town most likely to sway himself alive.

[Qgqqqqq]

Agreed that it's not a town tell. Though you do point out one interesting thing. Qgqqqqq jumped on immediately after me. Perhaps realising it was inevitable and that not bussing would make him stick out like a sore thumb? Though I can't say it looked particularly inevitable when I voted Gaz, bringing him up to equal with both Jkaen and BRick (discounting the cross-posted unvote from Qgqqqqq, off Jkaen). Looked more 'necessary to get the most likely scum lynched' than anything else.

Ignoring the fact that I'd been suspecting Gazglum for a long time (like, day 1 or 2ish) and had voted him earlier before reconsidering on seer-claim.
And also ignoring the fact that I had (as you mentioned) just unvoted in clear preparation for joining the group?
Yeah, clearly a wolf bussing...

Lets look at posts (method for looking without a scraper: go to search, threads with at least 1300 replies, in last month, in gaming table, and posted by subject):
Day 1 he posts pretty much nothing, voting Jowy because of his style changing, and, most interestingly, saying:

Jowy's position on the MJW wagon is also proof enough for me that we probably don't want to be lynching MJW today.

Which is basically his reason for switching. Thats bad because he's basically stating the town has caught a scum and basing other reads off it. (its also clear bandwagon following, which fails because of his missing for 8 hours. Rest of posts are just short reactions/meta discussions with Brick.
Oh and his post focussing on the .1/+1 votes is bad for revealing, in the same way he reveals Lewwyn.

Day 2 he spends attacking Ichabod (after the reveal area which has been analysed suffeciently), and then joins the Slowcheetah train really late, simply to save Zak. Matt says he was a candidate before, which I find a bit odd because before this you'd (almost? I cant find one...) never mentioned him before...

Day 3 you spend chasing Jkaen/(I forget who else...) with an absolute non-reaction to BRick which doesn't give you're opinion AT ALL.
Then, out of nowhere:

...
Jkaen's put some effort in, time to lynch all liars. BRickAstley

Err...what? Suddenly the meta about vote not matching vote, the problems with his non-communicando approach is over, and all that matters is a lynch on BRick (who has just started to pick up steam - if you read up this is just when novice, and zak discuss lynching with the LAL, and gzaglum/Jkaen discuss it). I'm not saying there was a need to stat on JKaen, he HAD just started contributing, but Matts support turns Brick into a proper candidate, and also offers an easy lynch especially with the novice/zak stamp of approval. So yeah, I find this post really suspicious.
He does explain it later (http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid388091) but I don't think its paticularly convincing or important. This is partly influenced by my personal belief re:Brick, but still suspicious regardless.
Then its just meta/answering questions to the lynch.
That night he posts this (http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid388180) where he basically goes from saying he didn't actually have a reaosn for voting to saying that he is now seeing a reason to vote, which seems...odd.

Then there's just endless meta-ing until he quickly votes Gazglum. When he leaves he posts a weak defence of Gaz, which seems to be gently pushing innocence ("Interesting how Gazglum's claimed role becomes weaker as sanity lowers, while BRick's becomes stronger. Self balancing, maybe? Seems odd to have both effects, though.") without giving a firm opinion.
I didnt notice the post where he rejoined.
...
After this its too recent and uninteresting for me to bother, though of course there's the BRick 360 (

BRick - claim backed by uber doesn't seem appropriate for wolf. I don't see SK as likely.

-->

Geez, uber. First you give me evidence that makes me not vote BRick, now you have new evidence that points to BRick again? Make up your mind, will you tongue

I'm still doubtful of the existence of a SK. We've seen literally *no* actual evidence of such, over 4 nights. And yes, your case seems quite meta. But equivalently, the main reason I'm not voting for him is meta as well - the assumption that wolves wouldn't "shoot".
Maybe they do, though? Or, at least one of them does. We don't really recall getting descriptions of the bodies, other than zak's...
BRickAstley

I really hope you're right about this.

Which involves huge switching of responsibility, seemingly basing whole issue around Brick to the ignorance of other players, and sole use of meta.

Since then he's basically been on the fence, setting up the uber-Q confrontation today, and postibg meta snippets.

In summary, a bunch of suspicious votes/reasoning, consistent meta instead of actual contributing and a broad lack of village tells.
That pushes him above uber for me.
Uberfish

[Lewwyn]

What? Are you so used to voting uber that you forgot you just argued against Matt?

[uberfish]

Technically Lewwyn isn't cleared, he could have some sort of untargettable or strongman ability that he used on n4. And one of the few things we know for sure is that he killed azza on night 1 where there's an unaccounted for missing scum kill.

I don't think Lewwyn's original case on Mattimeo is that strong

1) Matt targetting azza is slightly weird. But so is lewwyn himself targetting azza. in both cases we have a claimed dual function ability being used on someone who's a strong player that's hard to read due to early lurking. it's weird because IIRC Lewwyn said that azza might be killed as a "strong player" too but I don't see why wolves would kill azza on day 1 when he had been lurking.

2) Info role not under suspicion doesn't have to reveal immediately, because not revealing acts as a deterrent for others to lie. (Matt didn't answer this way though so fails to get a town point there.)

3) I thought behaviour regarding gaz lynch was a scum tell on zak but it wasn't. I'm therefore reluctant to read too much into it now especially when Q/Matt positions are similar

4) out of charges day 4 and why isn't Matt dead yet. Tracker+watcher combo is too powerful to not have some limitations. However wolves wouldn't know exactly what. This is the main point I do find suspicious on Matt actually. If wolves have a roleblocker to prevent him tracking watching pind on night 4, then obvious question is why they didn't bother blocking an obscenely powerful info role on n2/n3.

5) I think matt's actually looking for some evidence to back up the meta/lying stuff here. Don't think that's a scum tell, town would do it also.

6) Jkaen being lynched yesterday is actually his own fault, as he should have made a self-preservation vote on Q late in the day. Don't think the scum motivation suggested by Lewwyn to setup jkaen-q as last two lynches is that compelling, as if he's scum he could be "persuaded" to lynch Q and just flip back to Jkaen on the next day.

[Qgqqqqq]

Oops

No, its because I typed his name just before, where normally after a post like that I post something like
"This is enough for me to vote Lewwyn.
Lewwyn"
Which is why I leapt to uber

Mattimeo

[Lewwyn]

Well I'm not untargettable or anything like that. If you think my case against Matt isn't that strong thats fine, but I really can't get over Pindi being killed over Matt. If you're worried I'm scum trying to mislynch Matt, ask yourself why I didn't just kill Matt and then mislynch Q with you. The answer is I'm a villager who just wants to catch scum and I think its Matt.

Uber will you go back and read Matt's Day 1?

[Mattimeo]

2) Info role not under suspicion doesn't have to reveal immediately, because not revealing acts as a deterrent for others to lie. (Matt didn't answer this way though so fails to get a town point there.)

Sorry, I figured the half a dozen times we covered that point on the relevant days was enough to have that assumed...

Also: why on earth would I leave 4 people alive in a situation where I my options are
a) pull Qgqqqqq into a lynch on someone I've stated to be town since D4
b) pull Qgqqqqq into a lynch on uber, after statements like

Now I think we have one wolf left. It could be Q or it could be Jkaen. I do not believe that Uberfish is a wolf. I just don't see wolves with a Daykill. Plus Jowy's death seems to indicate scum wanted to get Uber lynched. I don't see Mattimeo as a wolf at all. Doesn't fit.

That's pretty much where I'm coming from, except there's rather more concrete proof of your innocence than mine, since 1 scum looks pretty much inevitable now, imo.

c) pull *both* Lewwyn and uberfish into a lynch on Qgqqqqq, *rather than just one of them

Like, I see literally zero sense in anyone who was going to be pushing Qgqqqqq today leaving 4 people alive. None.

uber: if you think it might be Lewwyn, I'm not the one you have to convince. 2.1 is the lynch threshold. Any lynch must either involve Q, or everyone else, and I don't really see Lewwyn voting for himself.

[Mattimeo]

Well I'm not untargettable or anything like that. If you think my case against Matt isn't that strong thats fine, but I really can't get over Pindi being killed over Matt. If you're worried I'm scum trying to mislynch Matt, ask yourself why I didn't just kill Matt and then mislynch Q with you. The answer is I'm a villager who just wants to catch scum and I think its Matt.

Uber will you go back and read Matt's Day 1?

You know that uber's vote is irrelevant while anyone is voting alongside Qgqqqqq, yeah?

[Lewwyn]

Well I'm not untargettable or anything like that. If you think my case against Matt isn't that strong thats fine, but I really can't get over Pindi being killed over Matt. If you're worried I'm scum trying to mislynch Matt, ask yourself why I didn't just kill Matt and then mislynch Q with you. The answer is I'm a villager who just wants to catch scum and I think its Matt.

Uber will you go back and read Matt's Day 1?

You know that uber's vote is irrelevant while anyone is voting alongside Qgqqqqq, yeah?

Technically yes, but I still want his opinion to make sure I'm correct.

[uberfish]

also, Q is suddenly willing to go dig through matt's posts when he couldn't be bothered to do the same for mine yesterday? Hmm.

I mean he supposedly thinks I'm the obvious wolf yesterday/last night and now suddenly matt is more suspicious without any reasoning as to why I might be village now

if he has two suspects then why's he only looking into one in detail and not the other? why didn't he bother doing the same sort of digging on me yesterday?

Because he didn't care who was lynched yesterday so long as it wasn't himself

Q