Diplomacy Master Thread- Helping Your Opponents Beat Themselves

[Sian]

I'd find it odd that they would declare war for the sake of mutual protection when we've been willing to expand the peace with both parties so ....

Then again ... questioning their sanity when it comes to their diplo is probably true

[Mardoc]

CivPlayers has to do one of the following:

• Conquer land from us
  
• Conquer land from CivFr
  
• Lose
  

Assuming they're not interested in losing, and it's easier to get allies against us, it's perfectly rational. Low odds, but it's not like their position gets any better by waiting.

[Sian]

well ... they could also gang op on CivFr joining in on the spitting them up with CFC ... they CAN'T do worse than WPC did ... althrough ... without us knowing about the specifics between the two of them i can't guess how their diplo situation in that direction looks like otherwise

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

CivPlayers has to do one of the following:

• Conquer land from us
  
• Conquer land from CivFr
  
• Lose
  

Assuming they're not interested in losing, and it's easier to get allies against us, it's perfectly rational. Low odds, but it's not like their position gets any better by waiting.

This is true. CivPlayers and Apolyton both neighbor CivFr as well, who is currently mired in a war with an uncertain ending. Perhaps we could steer them in that direction instead? Again, low odds, but we don't lose by trying. Unless we think that they would perceive us as weak, and thus even more encouraged to fight us, but I think they're going to take their shot now, with or without CFC.

Am I remembering correctly that Apolyton swapped into Nationhood/Slavery and remained in Pacifism? Also, is it CivPlayers who had, until the Great Spy Infiltration, the EP lead? I can see an arrangement where Apolyton allows CivPlayers to steal Nationalism so they could quickly build a force as well. Does CivPlayers have Gunpowder? According to this, they do not, having just teched Civil Service and Engineering in the last few turns. Maybe CP's role is to use their sacrificial alters and make a massive stack of cats. Anyway, there are plenty of possibilities that are totally unfounded, so I'll leave off with all of that for now. I just wanted to put some thoughts down for consideration.

[darrelljs]

I think there is already a cabal with war plans against us, and any negotiations our opponents undertake is to camouflage that fact.

Darrell

[Sian]

As of how an RB vs CP+Poly should be strategicly handled, i'm suggesting Playing Defense against Poly, and (attempt) to push through CP ... if CFC joins up as well then grab their idiotcity and use that as a defensive outpost

[Mardoc]

Am I remembering correctly that Apolyton swapped into Nationhood/Slavery and remained in Pacifism?

No:

Apolyton has their last turn of golden age now, and they've switched to Nationhood, Slavery, and OR (was Bureaucracy, Caste, and Pacifism). I first thought they not adopting Theocracy was a sign of not being particularly aggressive, but they don't have Theology, so that doesn't really signify anything.

I can see a case for doing as Sian suggests, but it might make more sense to sit back and defend. Equal tech wars are very hard to win, but playing defense ought to at least give us a favorable hammer exchange ratio. I don't think, given the likely cost of conquering CivPlayers, that it's worth it, at least until we've gotten caught up on our infrastructure debt.

Might change once we've got a real tech lead over them, or we annilhilate a major stack, or spies detect an underdefended city.

[pindicator]

So much for 20 turns of peace to build up our economy.

Scooter, is CFC delaying their response or are we still in a normal timeframe?

Also, could we reach out to CivFr? Not to beg help but to offer help to them.

[scooter]

Scooter, is CFC delaying their response or are we still in a normal timeframe?

I expect it'll be a few days still. We're definitely within normal timeframe, and there's nothing urgent about responding to us. Our current deal doesn't expire for 15 more turns, which is well over a month away. So I doubt they feel any urgency to decide.

Also, could we reach out to CivFr? Not to beg help but to offer help to them.

We've done this a couple times now, and it's repeatedly been ignored.

[antisocialmunky]

How is it that we didn't talk to CivPlayers before this?

We could have alteast floated "For an NAP, we'll give you some maces so you can attack CivFR."