WW26: The Masquerade [Game Thread]

[Know-Nothing Jon]

And yes, Agnes, those were in fact all "archetypes", and not necessarily speculation about who is who. Muriel is playing a bit like Selrahc has played in the past as scum, spending much time on uninteresting meta speculation. Doctor Saul had an opening that reminded me a bit of scum Gazglum, and your opening post reminded me of scum thestick.

Bleh, looks like I butchered this paragraph while editing it. Just to be absolutely clear, Hard-Nose Harry's opening post was the one that reminded me of scum thestick.

Unrelated - isn't this also a good point, Doctor Saul?

Tell me this: why did you bring it up in the first place if you were only going to dismiss it?

That's the thing, I did not bring it up. Courage brought it up, revealing that he had a last name in the role-PM and asking whether it might be important.

[Doctor Saul]

Unrelated - isn't this also a good point, Doctor Saul?

Tell me this: why did you bring it up in the first place if you were only going to dismiss it?

That's the thing, I did not bring it up. Courage brought it up, revealing that he had a last name in the role-PM and asking whether it might be important.

Ah, but in this case I disagree. Elizabeth may have brought it up, but the manner that they both discuss it is what is important. Actually, much like how you explained to me that with Widow Edith it wasn't so much the rules question that mattered but more of the why behind using it as a reasoning for a vote.

Elizabeth brings it forward first here:

I re-read my role-PM and the only other piece of information is that I was given a last name. Do you think this matters at all guys?

And then Muriel responds

Yes, it most definitely matters. If it didn't, it would have been included in your profile name. There has to be a reason why it is hidden.

Then decides she needs to continue, but without any prompting

Expanding on this, it seems any last names are tied to our roles. We are all called by our first name, nick name, or both. Any last name received would be interchangeable, and they were received specifically in a role-PM. Last names might yet play a part in this game. They might be used by a role or multiple roles, or they could be part of other gameplay at some point. Whatever it is, there's no need to start guessing. Unless someone has more information, they are no help to us, and should be ignored.

Now nobody else has suggested that last names are tied to roles, but Muriel seems to feel the need to:

Firstly, why make that assertion here, which is a pretty bold assertion to make, and then back away and say nobody needs to discuss it? Why make such an assertion that power roles are tied to a last name and speculate on the nature of last names, and then say there's no need to do exactly what she just did. How can you go to that conclusion and then say we shouldn't speak of it and yet give nobody the time to think of it? And like I said, I was about to post on that topic with a point of my own, but immediately realized that the response would give away whether or not I had a power role. Hence, it led to me immediately raising suspicions that the whole point of the exercise was to get people to do what I had almost fallen for.

So she is being untrue, or rather giving a half-truth. She says that Elizabeth brought it up -- Elizabeth only brought up that she had a last name. Muriel was the one that said a last name must be tied to a power role. But then adds we shouldn't speak of it. I feel that it is manipulative.

[Muriel The Slow]

The only liar here is you, Saul. I never said anything about power roles being tied to last names. That's something you've come up with yourself, then attributed that to me, and finally dared claim that I was the one creating a trap. If anyone wants to confirm my words, just go back and read through. All I've ever speculated is that your role and your last name are linked, because they came in the same role-PM. Never have I said anything about power roles.

You've been caught in two lies, Saul. If you are a villager, please spend some more time checking your facts before making a case. Catching someone in a lie is one of the biggest wolf tells we could get, and it would be a shame if villagers get a wolf reputation by being careless and then get miss-lynched.

[Half-Nose Harry]

sigh just throw the game with stupid meta bs then.

This seems like a tad bit of an overreaction or just melodrama. While it doesn't make sense to get fixated on the meta, it can be worthwhile using any information we have imo. I wouldn't consider Lady Elizabeth cleared because of it, but a definite village lean.

@Old Tom Thanks for the explanations. I still don't read Rose's post I believe you were referring to as scummy, but believe that it may appear so to you.

The only liar here is you, Saul. I never said anything about power roles being tied to last names. That's something you've come up with yourself, then attributed that to me, and finally dared claim that I was the one creating a trap. If anyone wants to confirm my words, just go back and read through. All I've ever speculated is that your role and your last name are linked, because they came in the same role-PM. Never have I said anything about power roles.

You've been caught in two lies, Saul. If you are a villager, please spend some more time checking your facts before making a case. Catching someone in a lie is one of the biggest wolf tells we could get, and it would be a shame if villagers get a wolf reputation by being careless and then get miss-lynched.

Muriel The Slow please elaborate on this. If by roles you aren't implying that last names are linked to power roles, then what do you mean by roles? Wolf/villager? I don't really understand what else you could mean, so I see how the good doctor could have come to his conclusion.

[Doctor Saul]

Expanding on this, it seems any last names are tied to our roles. We are all called by our first name, nick name, or both. Any last name received would be interchangeable, and they were received specifically in a role-PM. Last names might yet play a part in this game. They might be used by a role or multiple roles, or they could be part of other gameplay at some point. Whatever it is, there's no need to start guessing. Unless someone has more information, they are no help to us, and should be ignored.

Who's the liar, again?

[Rob The Filch]

The only liar here is you, Saul. I never said anything about power roles being tied to last names. That's something you've come up with yourself, then attributed that to me, and finally dared claim that I was the one creating a trap. If anyone wants to confirm my words, just go back and read through. All I've ever speculated is that your role and your last name are linked, because they came in the same role-PM. Never have I said anything about power roles.

You've been caught in two lies, Saul. If you are a villager, please spend some more time checking your facts before making a case. Catching someone in a lie is one of the biggest wolf tells we could get, and it would be a shame if villagers get a wolf reputation by being careless and then get miss-lynched.

Again! You attack your accusers by saying they lie! I agree with the Doctor 100%.

For reference:

I re-read my role-PM and the only other piece of information is that I was given a last name. Do you think this matters at all guys?

Yes, it most definitely matters. If it didn't, it would have been included in your profile name. There has to be a reason why it is hidden.

Expanding on this, it seems any last names are tied to our roles. We are all called by our first name, nick name, or both. Any last name received would be interchangeable, and they were received specifically in a role-PM. Last names might yet play a part in this game. They might be used by a role or multiple roles, or they could be part of other gameplay at some point. Whatever it is, there's no need to start guessing. Unless someone has more information, they are no help to us, and should be ignored.

Creating paranoia and then shuffling it away?

When I say creating paranoia and then shuffling it away I'm referring to the very thing Saul is now referring to. He probably explained it better than me. But your commentary on last names seems designed to make people wary of their last names but then tell everyone to forget about them. It seems specifically designed with some hidden knowledge in mind.

And yet everyone is a liar.

[Muriel The Slow]

sigh just throw the game with stupid meta bs then.

This seems like a tad bit of an overreaction or just melodrama. While it doesn't make sense to get fixated on the meta, it can be worthwhile using any information we have imo. I wouldn't consider Lady Elizabeth cleared because of it, but a definite village lean.

@Old Tom Thanks for the explanations. I still don't read Rose's post I believe you were referring to as scummy, but believe that it may appear so to you.

The only liar here is you, Saul. I never said anything about power roles being tied to last names. That's something you've come up with yourself, then attributed that to me, and finally dared claim that I was the one creating a trap. If anyone wants to confirm my words, just go back and read through. All I've ever speculated is that your role and your last name are linked, because they came in the same role-PM. Never have I said anything about power roles.

You've been caught in two lies, Saul. If you are a villager, please spend some more time checking your facts before making a case. Catching someone in a lie is one of the biggest wolf tells we could get, and it would be a shame if villagers get a wolf reputation by being careless and then get miss-lynched.

Muriel The Slow please elaborate on this. If by roles you aren't implying that last names are linked to power roles, then what do you mean by roles? Wolf/villager? I don't really understand what else you could mean, so I see how the good doctor could have come to his conclusion.

Roles are roles. Power roles are the roles with the most power. "Vanilla" is a role, but is clearly not a power role.

Expanding on this, it seems any last names are tied to our roles. We are all called by our first name, nick name, or both. Any last name received would be interchangeable, and they were received specifically in a role-PM. Last names might yet play a part in this game. They might be used by a role or multiple roles, or they could be part of other gameplay at some point. Whatever it is, there's no need to start guessing. Unless someone has more information, they are no help to us, and should be ignored.

Who's the liar, again?

Can you quote the part about power roles, because that doesn't talk about power roles at all. It's just speculation that if last names turn out to be a gameplay mechanic, there needs to be more information on how they work. Chances are, some of us already possess that information, else it wouldn't make much sense to have a gameplay mechanic that no-one knows how it works. You seem to think that I've at some point said that only power roles have a last name, but that is a blatant lie.

[Muriel The Slow]

Again! You attack your accusers by saying they lie! I agree with the Doctor 100%.

I don't say that they lie, I prove that they lie. Fingers crossed that it's wolves playing sloppily rather than villagers playing lazily.

[Rob The Filch]

He described the information in the role-PM exactly like I would have done. Yes, he could be a wolf who made an incredibly dumb and risky move and got incredibly lucky to get it right. Yes, the game master might have created traps and such to prevent meta gaming. Those are both options that should not be discounted. But I believe him and for a Day 1 lead this is worth following.

Open question to everyone since this affects both Muriel and Percival and Elizabeth. There is a vanilla role PM in the Rules post. Was that there at the beginning of the game? I didn't check until I read this post.

[Rob The Filch]

You seem to think that I've at some point said that only power roles have a last name, but that is a blatant lie.

You specifically said that they

They might be used by a role or multiple roles, or they could be part of other gameplay at some point.

Multiple roles and gameplay affecting roles implies more than just vanilla roles. So again its not a blatant lie. You're trying to cover up what you said and dismiss it.