(July 21st, 2013, 08:39)Know-Nothing Jon Wrote: In the interest of bandwagoning, Friar Andrew.
Agnes, I didn't try to egg anyone on. But I thought Doctor Saul was being weirdly receptive to my arguments compared to a more hard-nosed stance against Muriel.
You expected me to not agree with your argument?
Or perhaps you mean the difference in my attitude towards you and Muriel?
(July 20th, 2013, 22:05)Friar Andrew Wrote: This weekend is actually rather awkward for me, had very little time free. Will have time tonight to have a more detailed look, but from skimming:
While Elizabeth may not be completely cleared by the meta, I'd say she definitely shouldn't be a Day 1 target. I find those pressing her to be somewhat suspicious because of this.
Initial impressions of the attacks on Muriel was rather poor - they seemed baseless joke votes that then had a case fabricated behind them. Don't have time to go through recent posts in detail, though, and they look to be relevant to developing an opinion on the matter. Though more about Muriel's status than that of the people initially attacking her.
Sir Percival is giving an appearance of disliking the way he's chosen to restrict his speech almost as much as the rest of us do
I haven't had much time either but finding this post suspicious, because it's such a vague argument regarding the people voting both Liz and Muriel. It looks like a filler post that's more to say "I'm here" than anything else, and I think that's a typical thing wolves do.
I think this is a good post and I Scarlet John draws the right conclusions about Friar Andrew's post. At this point if I were not to vote for Muriel I would probably vote for Andrew.
That said, I am not convinced that Muriel is a villager. I'm also not convinced that the good Doctor is convinced she's a villager too. I would like to hear his reasons for thinking so. In the meantime I simply believe the evasive and wordy tone style that Muriel is using is part of a shield against being able to read her. I believe that though she claims to have been a good little villager and tried to contribute a lot, she hasn't. For the most part of the day she has discussed meta in order to tell us not to discuss meta. She has defended against me and then gone after me, but has no suspects beyond me. Muriel if you do have other suspects please feel free to tell us, I however, think you have a cheat sheet and have not yet been able to fabricate any cases and so you have come after the person coming after you, because that's easy. You have been defensive and it smacks of wolfy evaisiveness. Smear and flee. Trying to live to kill another night.
(July 20th, 2013, 18:26)Know-Nothing Jon Wrote: Well, whatever Widow Edith meant, she didn't in any way say why Lady Elizabeth was scummy for it, so it reads like an excuse either way to me. I don't know if the rules being referred to are supposed to be game rules or just unwritten rules, but I don't see how it changes anything.
That...
...is a good point.
Yeah, Saul, I'm talking about the difference in attitude. I thought your question smelled a bit like a "filler" question to begin with, and then your response (above) was a bit... groveling, for lack of a better word. It was a little weird, which is why I asked you a follow-up about Muriel, to gauge your response on that.
(July 21st, 2013, 09:02)Sir Percival Wrote: muriel, either ur scum or u have role. convince me ur role is bad lynch.
Why don't you just drop OOC permanently? It's easier to communicate if we don't put up artificial restrictions as additional barriers, and this game does revolve around communication. I would think it might be more enjoyable for you too if you could speak unhindered.
(July 21st, 2013, 07:50)Old Tom Wrote: @FatRose: Early Day 1, not much to go on, your post seemed scummy to Old Tom. It certainly may be your style of sentence construction (or lack thereof)
minor rant:
but while on that topic. Old Tom finds this particularly hypocritical :
Quote: I thought first that you didn't take the time to understand the posts but obviously you do and you just don't take the time to phrase your questions in an understandable way.
Old Tom has to re-read almost every sentence you write 3-4 times to try to divine some meaning. It could easily be colouring Old Tom's impressions of your posts. Old Tom is old enough to remember when they actually cared about teaching grammar in American schools. (for example: LE/Courage not knowing the difference between first person and third person)
Old tom will drop the third person - its kind of annoying to type that way anyway
I agree I dont read the over-eagerness as a wolf tell. The rest of your recent post explains how i read your initial wot as scummy - its a feel game to start. Not to harp on it, but again with the hypocrisy: You need a firm explanation for my reading/feel, but in your next post you dodge giving one?
Saul - what was the tipping point that made you feel your exchange with Slow Muriel was a villager=on=villager action? I didn't really see evidence of that. Your post to that effect seemed to materialize out of nowhere. I don't want to let a day1 scum catch slip away like in previous games.
@cross-post ScarJohn - agreed with points about the helpful Friar. (and not just because I am a Muriel voter)
Ok, so that was the third time I asked you what made my post scummy and the third time you answer with "It felt scummy.". Really, I get it that it felt scummy to you. I still don't know why. I get more and more the feeling that you don't know yourself why and that your whole post was just written so that you would appear active. Your other posts aren't better.
#62: Voting for Andrew, me, Muriel. All on flimsy reason (too jokey; too long post; calls herself villager)
#128: Stating you don't want to explain what is scummy on my post because you are lazy but you explain that Muriel is trying to make her message seem more true than it is, which you derive from the way she constructed one sentence
#133: some 'jokes' and game-unrelated commentary
#134: explanation to something game-unrelated from #133
#204: your post telling me again that my post felt scummy and that I should work on my English language skills; asking Saul why Muriel is suddenly not scummy for him anymore (for me that sounds like a wolf that sees his mislynch slip away)
#206: Joke about Tasunke not being in the game
Yeah, so 6 posts, 3 of them just jokes / game-unrelated stuff. Leaves 3 posts, one being more or less just a voting-post, 2 trying to get Muriel lynched. In #204 you even state "I don't want to let a day1 scum catch slip away like in previous games." You seem very certain that Muriel is scum, care to explain that a little bit more in detail? And please, not again by telling me "she feels scummy"...
Two players stood out on my re-read, excluding the cases that have already been made. First of those was Sir Percival. I have no problem with people roleplaying in this game. If there's ever a proper time for a villager to RP, this would be it. It's the lack of good content that I find troubling. His reason for voting Courage was that Courage had a split personality. That sounds like a joke vote at first, but he insists on it, even going as far as saying that we've thrown the game if we don't lynch Courage today. He is so convinced that Courage is a wolf, then he... votes for Muriel? The reason he gave was that Muriel was the one who originally came up with the argument that gives Courage a village lean. Let's assume that Percival was a villager. He fully believes that he has caught a wolf in Courage. Now, what would make sense: voting for the wolf (Courage), or voting for one the many people who happened to think that Courage was not a wolf? I would vote 100 times out of 100 times for the wolf, especially when there was still plenty of time for the wolf to gain more votes and get lynched. The way Percival is playing makes no sense to me if he is a villager, and not because of his posting style.
The second player that stood out to me was Sister Mary.
(July 20th, 2013, 16:37)Sister Mary Wrote: Sorry, hectic weekend on this end. Should be online he next hours to contribute in some semblance of a meaningful way.
Firstly, on Courage, though I really disliked his first post, for not being precisely in the spirit of the game, I read all his interventions as villagery. His irritation towards me is more than fair, so there's that. Again, sorry. Personal preferences aside. That being said, many of his contributions have been towards the reworking of his "persona" in his first post. Agree with sir Percy, the meta does not clear him.
I agree with Agnes' reasoning towards the number of scum, considering too the promises made by the narrator.
On Muriel versus the world. I fail to see the substance behind the arguments. Rob's initial attack has been justified by the perception of a "wall of text" consiting of two parragraphs. If the initial vote was some sort of joke vote, he wouldn't have pushed the case further. Though I agree with Sir Percy's assesment on Courage, his stance on Muriel eludes me.
My suspicions lean towards Rob the Filch. True, this is day one and in the week end, so not much to begin with, and the new acconts slow the meta arguments based on past performances. I find his attack suspicious, arguing absent reasoning. If he was just to gauge reactions, his persistance makes liitle sense, other, if, you know, scum.
@Courage, I know this does not make up for the absence of this sweet little nun, but, we are her now, ready to rumble!
Now watch what she does later on:
(July 20th, 2013, 22:16)Sister Mary Wrote:
Quote:Will now that guy who I dumped my vote on showed up it's time to switch.
Now that SHE has shown up... first yourself, then Muriel too, I swear to you, girls don't bring the cooties to the playground.
Well, this nun is off to one of those parties that may or maynot involve some booze and more than loving words. I'll put my money where my mouth is, and vote Muriel the Slow for now. I am not convinced of her guilt just yet, but is too late to unvote and my suspicions of Rob have, somewhat, diminished.
When I return I'll revisit Agnes's case and any other that might pop.
Wait, what? What a complete turn-around. Well, not quite complete, because she still says that she does not think Muriel is a wolf. I'll get to that in a minute, but first let me confirm that there was no votes made by Mary between these two posts. Let's assume she is a villager first. She first makes a case against Rob, finding Rob's persistence suspicious. Then, after Rob has done nothing but keep at his 100% Muriel attack post rate, Mary suddenly thinks that Rob is no longer suspicious, despite the fact that Rob has kept doing exactly the thing that made her suspicious of him in the first place. Still assuming that Mary is a villager, why did she change her mind about Muriel (or did she, because she still says she's not convinced?)? Yet she still votes for Muriel. She gave no reasons at all to her change of mind. Then she leaves for a party, for what I'm assuming is a long time. Shouldn't she at least give her reasons for her vote if she's going to be away and can't answer any questions about her vote? This all makes little sense to me.
Now let's assume that she is a wolf instead. She makes an attack on Rob, which she doesn't follow up on despite the fact that Rob has continued to act persistent on Muriel, which was the reason for the Rob wolf tell. An attack on another wolf for show, perhaps? She decided to not go for the bandwagon at first, and defended Muriel's innocence. Maybe she wants Muriel around as a highly suspicious villager, but I don't find that likely. I think she is defending Muriel in both of these posts, to gain villager credit when Muriel is lynched and turns out to be a villager. She was the one defending her, she can't be a wolf! The most peculiar thing of it all, is the vote against Muriel. I believe that Mary really has a party to go in, and perhaps won't have enough time to do much before the deadline. So it's a good idea for a wolf to throw a vote at the current bandwagon leader just to make sure a wolf doesn't accidentally get lynched when she's not around, or has too little time to change the course of a bandwagon. It's not like she's throwing away her cover, she is still saying that she's not convinced that Muriel is a wolf.
Both have a slight wolf lean in my eyes. Percival less so than Mary, because playing a character can be more difficult than it sounds, and he might just be a villager who's having a hard time being "Sir Percival".
Fake-Edit: Damn, while writing this, Rob got a post out telling me to talk about other suspects I have. I realize that posting this now might put me in a bad light, but I will still do it. I hope you don't disregard the arguments just because of the timing. Btw Rob I'm proud that you finally mentioned another player in your posts, even if it was just a no-reasoning-given jab at someone while spending the other 90% of the post on Muriel
(July 20th, 2013, 18:26)Know-Nothing Jon Wrote: Well, whatever Widow Edith meant, she didn't in any way say why Lady Elizabeth was scummy for it, so it reads like an excuse either way to me. I don't know if the rules being referred to are supposed to be game rules or just unwritten rules, but I don't see how it changes anything.
That...
...is a good point.
Yeah, Saul, I'm talking about the difference in attitude. I thought your question smelled a bit like a "filler" question to begin with, and then your response (above) was a bit... groveling, for lack of a better word. It was a little weird, which is why I asked you a follow-up about Muriel, to gauge your response on that.
Percy isn't the only one trying to role-play. Although I fall out of the RP more and more as I get into the game, so I've hardly been consistent. So yeah, I did a pause there to show that I was about to argue it but then realized that you had a solid point. Excessive? Probably, but I'm also irritated that I've broken character several times now.
I actually like Edith's response, though - that she was voting Elizabeth out of a frustration that someone would sign up for a masquerade game and then throw a pity party that they didn't get a character they liked.
And Muriel... yeah, I'm thinking more and more that Muriel and I are two villagers who are butting heads. The emotion and attitude that Muriel is showing to me is consistent with a villager, and what I thought I had as a slip turns out to mean two different things to the two of us. I need to re-read with that in mind, really, but I also want to enjoy my Sunday. Anyway, Muriel gets a pass for now I think.
x-post with Muriel: Muriel definitely gets a pass. That is a good pick-up, that someone would say that they fail to see the substance behind the arguments and yet then vote for you later. I would like to hear Sister Mary's response as well.
It was a little weird, which is why I asked you a follow-up about Muriel, to gauge your response on that.
