Diplomacy Master Thread- Helping Your Opponents Beat Themselves

[scooter]

I have to say Scooter, your efforts to save us from our own successes are truly heroic.

This is why I quit playing diplo games years ago, I just cannot help myself.

One note: of course we would only do this with ironclad agreements. Yes it's theoretically possible teams could tear the agreements up for no reason whatsoever and completely screw us. I'd like to think that nobody we're playing with is that low, but if you would like to oppose the idea on the basis of that fear, feel free to state that. However, I don't want a full threadjack into tinfoil stuff. If enough people express their opposition on that basis, we can kill the deal, but I'd like the discussion to be more profitable.

Anyway, I can't login for the next 4-5 hours minimum. I'll be mostly away from my computer during that time too, but can someone jump in sometime and give an exact breakdown of our military? I'd like to start thinking through exactly what we'd be willing to part with. Honestly, 50T NAP from both Apolyton and CivPlayers is probably game over, so I think we should make a strong offer.

[Ellimist]

I have to say Scooter, your efforts to save us from our own successes are truly heroic.

This is why I quit playing diplo games years ago, I just cannot help myself.

One note: of course we would only do this with ironclad agreements. Yes it's theoretically possible teams could tear the agreements up for no reason whatsoever and completely screw us. I'd like to think that nobody we're playing with is that low, but if you would like to oppose the idea on the basis of that fear, feel free to state that. However, I don't want a full threadjack into tinfoil stuff. If enough people express their opposition on that basis, we can kill the deal, but I'd like the discussion to be more profitable.

Anyway, I can't login for the next 4-5 hours minimum. I'll be mostly away from my computer during that time too, but can someone jump in sometime and give an exact breakdown of our military? I'd like to start thinking through exactly what we'd be willing to part with. Honestly, 50T NAP from both Apolyton and CivPlayers is probably game over, so I think we should make a strong offer.

I'm not sure what we can afford, but I doubt they're going to seriously consider any offer that isn't at least 40-50 units.

Not only that, but this also gives us an opportunity to bluff a bit and make them overestimate our defenses.

[edit] I don't mean that we bluff them on our existing army composition, which I expect them to already know due to spies, but rather on the units we expect to build.

[sooooo]

My opinion is that we shouldn't squirm too much and offer crazy deals like giving away x muskets. I think we should just man-up and defend our borders. If we get dogpiled and carved up then so be it, but we'll go down fighting.

[Cyneheard]

Can someone log into the game and accept WPC's just-offered Map Trade offer, unless we've got a good reason not to?

[scooter]

My opinion is that we shouldn't squirm too much and offer crazy deals like giving away x muskets. I think we should just man-up and defend our borders. If we get dogpiled and carved up then so be it, but we'll go down fighting.

Diplo is on for a reason. These teams are using it to organize a dogpile, why shouldn't we use it as much as is possible to break it up? That's silly. Purposely passing up diplo opportunities is playing with one arm behind your back.

[sooooo]

My opinion is that we shouldn't squirm too much and offer crazy deals like giving away x muskets. I think we should just man-up and defend our borders. If we get dogpiled and carved up then so be it, but we'll go down fighting.

Diplo is on for a reason. These teams are using it to organize a dogpile, why shouldn't we use it as much as is possible to break it up? That's silly. Purposely passing up diplo opportunities is playing with one arm behind your back.

Firstly the nature of the deal: It's not civplayers we're all that worried about. CFC and Apolyton alone are enough to worry us due to the geography and their tech lead.

Secondly, more generally, we have the reputation of Realms Beyond to uphold. You could use the logic of "Purposely passing up diplo opportunities is playing with one arm behind your back" to justify all kinds of behaviour. Offering these kind of deals makes us seem (a) desperate and (b) cowardly.

CFC, Apolyton and CivPLayers should logically dogpile us. There is no reasonable cost we can pay to defy that logic. We should concentrate on building and positioning a western and an eastern army.

[scooter]

1) in the chat it says Apolyton and civplayers. No way do we make a deal that doesn't include both
2) I don't even know how to respond to that part
3) "there is no reasonable cost" - you haven't played many diplo games have you . Trying to make deals is not mutually exclusive with preparing a defense

[sooooo]

1) in the chat it says Apolyton and civplayers. No way do we make a deal that doesn't include both
2) I don't even know how to respond to that part
3) "there is no reasonable cost" - you haven't played many diplo games have you . Trying to make deals is not mutually exclusive with preparing a defense

1: ok, I missed that, sorry
2: well it is something I think about. I'm proud of realms beyond and its core values. This may be better off in the rants thread but I genuinely cringe when I see us screwing our allies, when I read nobleheliums "Fuck CFC" posts and hear Sullla's LOL-style sweary tirade. My post was too harsh on you and I apologise because I know you're trying your best and have your heart in the right place. So apologies for that.
3: no, I haven't. But I stand by the no reasonable cost statement. And regarding mutually exclusivity: sure, but I view this kind of diplo akin to alternative medicine. Sure it can't hurt to try but is ultimately useless and distracting.

[darrelljs]

If the diplo cost is cheaper than the war cost and we have better odds of winning the game, then we should gladly pay it. I think sooooo's point should be that defending a dogpile will make teams reluctant to test us again, while caving in to demands will only encourage more extortion in the future.

Darrell

[pindicator]

Message 1 - Warn CivFr that CivPlayers and Apolyton are building up and possibly coming after them
Message 2 - Chat with CivPlayers about gifting them troops to attack CivFr with

I love it!