Diplomacy Master Thread- Helping Your Opponents Beat Themselves

[sunrise089]

I wonder if this dogpile would fall apart to some degree if we can cripple CFC preemptively with UCiv's help?

I think the best way to do this is to drop into chat with them and gauge what they are willing to do rather than just making a gold offer off the bat. It'd sure help make them feel better.

Just to be clear, we may be invaded by a few dozen rifles in 6-7t I'm not sure we can preemptively do much of anything.

[pindicator]

But we can frame an offer as "help us now, we help you take CFC later "

[Bigger]

But we can frame an offer as "help us now, we help you take CFC later "

lol, like we helped wpc take out the Germans?

[MWIN]

I am not disagreeing. I thought explaining this in chat might give us better results...

This email still sounds like we are desperate.

We should probably stop making offers and hope that someone rescues us.


Look, I see a lot of "sure we can offer that but WHAT WILL PEOPLE THINK" stuff. That stuff is imaginary. It's when you hear in sports someone talk about "grit" or "clutch" or whatever - it's not real, it has no in-game effect. Like, do you think our neighbors will go "oh they sound weak so let's build EXTRA military!" I'd rather "sound weak" and win than be proven weak and while 3 civs run roughshod over us.

Besides, UCiv specifically just said they thought our neighbors sounded arrogant or cocky. Responding by projecting loads of confidence sounds like a terrible idea to me. It sounds to me like they want to matter. They want to prove those arrogant teams wrong and be on the winning "side" and we can definitely offer that to them.


preview-edit: I see sunrise's post. I think he's right. I'll change it to 50%. I want it to be a genuinely worthwhile investment for them.

[Bigger]

I agree w/ MWIN that chat would be better, but time is also an issue. I think Scooter has a better handle on who he can easily grab in chat and who he can't that we do.

[pindicator]

But we can frame an offer as "help us now, we help you take CFC later "

lol, like we helped wpc take out the Germans?

No, we'd specifically do it in a way where they get all the gain. Maybe we raze some border city and tie down forces but we don't need more land

[Azoth]

I want opinions on that 30% number. Put yourself in their shoes and tell me if that would sound good or not good enough if you were them. To me, I don't think the cost matters here to us, and I don't want them to feel low-balled.

I think we're going about this the wrong way. The reason we sound business-like is because we're requesting a loan instead of proposing a research pact. Instead of asking "Can you lend us some money?" we should say "Apolyton discovered Rifling in 1000 AD only with help from CivPlayers. We need to respond in kind. Our team is one tech away from Rifling. If you would fund us through the next few turns, we promise to gift you X Rifles Y turns after we discover Rifling, and return your gold with 50% interest. That way, both our teams will be safer."

From what I understand, our military problems go away once we have Rifling, because we can draft 5 Rifles per turn. If UCiv helps us discover Rifling even 5 turns sooner, then we can afford to give them some portion of the 25 Rifles we otherwise would not have. And they're on the other side of WPC, so delivery shouldn't be a problem.

[Bigger]

I want opinions on that 30% number. Put yourself in their shoes and tell me if that would sound good or not good enough if you were them. To me, I don't think the cost matters here to us, and I don't want them to feel low-balled.

I think we're going about this the wrong way. The reason we sound business-like is because we're requesting a loan instead of proposing a research pact. Instead of asking "Can you lend us some money?" we should say "Apolyton discovered Rifling in 1000 AD only with help from CivPlayers. We need to respond in kind. Our team is one tech away from Rifling. If you would fund us through the next few turns, we promise to gift you X Rifles Y turns after we discover Rifling, and return your gold with 50% interest. That way, both our teams will be safer."

From what I understand, our military problems go away once we have Rifling, because we can draft 5 Rifles per turn. If UCiv helps us discover Rifling even 5 turns sooner, then we can afford to give them some portion of the 25 Rifles we otherwise would not have. And they're on the other side of WPC, so delivery shouldn't be a problem.

if nothing else, "research pact" is MUCH better terminology than "loan"

[antisocialmunky]

Good idea Azoth.

[scooter]

Sent to UCiv, making some of the changes suggested.

Yuufo,

I was just about to follow-up with you, nice timing smile.

Of course we are very happy to work with you - to us this is great news. I have an idea of how we could do that, if you are interested. The last idea we suggested about Communism tech will not work. We are being threatened by neighbors, so we are abandoning that and headed straight for drafted rifles. However, would you be willing to do sort of a "research pact" with us? If you would fund us towards Rifling with gold if we paid you back with interest? We just need to get there as quickly as possible, and we'd be happy to give you back significant interest. Whatever you can spare, we'll pay it back to you and 50% extra. How does that sound?

Maybe we can chat sometime today or tomorrow? That might be an easier way to talk. I have a couple other ideas.

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB