[SPOILERS] XXX: you must be 18 (or a lurker) to enter

[Qgqqqqq]

If anyone has a cooler title, go for it, I'm sure something can be made of that, but I'm way too tired to care right now.






































Here is a real rough and ready map draft, it's by no means ready but good for a basic examination.

The idea is as follows:
Take a random Torusland map.
Balance the starting food, commerce and immediate expansion options.
Balance strategic resources and anything that's glaring.

I'm listing whats been done at each capital with those signs. The idea is to improve, not remove. This is why the Calabim start is strong, its been generated like that randomly, for the rest silk is the equalizer. I may balance more extensively, but currently I think its best to just make sure its viable as in a largely random map there's so many factors (like whoevers close gold, or the FP region for Mardoc).
This is very much a prelim, so no pictures till I've done more work, but I have no intention of changing the overall terrain.
If anyone does look at it: does Hannah the Irin or Octopus Overlords look overpowered?

[DaveV]

If anyone has a cooler title, go for it

How about "XXX: you must be 18 (or a lurker) to enter"?

This is very much a prelim, so no pictures till I've done more work, but I have no intention of changing the overall terrain.
If anyone does look at it: does Hannah the Irin or Octopus Overlords look overpowered?

Hannah might be a little too strong; OO will be good but not too good, IMO.

I'd strongly recommend bridging the gigantic sea to the west of the Amurites (Player 2 according to the signs). And either delete the islands or change them into peninsulas. You have a couple Amurite athames SE of the Amurites and vampires.

[Qgqqqqq]

Oops
I always do that.

I think I agree there, that area and the ICTR are uneven.

[Qgqqqqq]

I couldn't find any Athame...

I've now balanced (or at least I think I've balanced ) the strategic resources.
The aims are as follows:
Copper if not already applicable is placed within easy reach of the capital - think a second ring city, always in non disputed areas that are clearly theres. Calabim is too far away now that I think of it, so that'll come a bit closer.
The aim is to have every civ have access to 2.5 mana sources, 1 close and then 3 that are contested/roughly equidistant. Because there are 5 players, the exception are the Grigori, who have 2 contested, but they have access to more land and one of their equidistant falls within land that might be easily defended on their side so I think they're the best choice.
Iron is two sources, 1 thats just a little way in one direction, and another that's slightly further in the opposite.
Mithril and gunpowder are each two 5 tiles diagonally from the settler
Incense is always relatively close, but not an immediate grab and reagants a bit closer.
Marble I don't have a handle on, I think there are two sources that are a bit of a reach for everyone.

My feeling is for those strats that require significant investment to get/use is to make them easier to access. If you research MW its a punch in the guts to find yourself lacking mithril, so the really late game gunpowder/mithril are practically gauranteed, iron is a bit of a reach but ultimately should be available to everyone, and mana is a guaranteed initial, plus contested areas to make it an investment. Incense I wanted available for priests, but not *too* easy that everyone could grab them for early teching. Reagants also readily available for archmages, but not as easy as gunpowder/mithril because you can see from T1 so its your own fault if you don't grab it.

I reduced the sea region, but left it so each area could build boats and they could be canaled with effort. There is still a single island, which I hold as being the compensation for so much (near-) useless water as opposed to other teams land. It's still relatively weak, however, as its not AW.

Next to come: I'll look at applying some balance to early commerce/expansion and happiness.

[DaveV]

I took a really quick look, and noticed the Splintered Court popup again. I checked the worldbuilder file, and found "Option=GAMEOPTION_WB_THE_SPLINTERED_COURT". One other comment: Corn + wheat is much better than wheat + clam. Animal husbandry and fishing are second-tier techs that are not on the standard worker tech path of agriculture->calendar, crafting->mining. That makes pasture and work boat tiles slower to improve. Plus, corn and rice (and irrigated grassland and floodplains) gain +1 food from Agrarianism, after which wet corn is the single strongest tile in the game.

[Qgqqqqq]

I know, I didn't make the starts. Seeing as you've opened this, this is what I've done to the starts:
If it seems weak food wise, or has no agriculture resources, add a wet wheat. If its low commerce, add a riverside/or nonriverside silk.

Do you think I should be specifically balancing it out?
I've been trying to do a low edit influence to try and keep it natural,and also only adding and not taking away - with the goal being that everyone is roughly equal. Because of the way FFH works, I don't believe equality to be achievable, there's too many random elements. So I think its best just to reduce the gaps that have occurred naturally so everyone has a chance.

[Qgqqqqq]

Starting positions:
Player 1:

This was the "wonder start" which came all of it own. I did weaken it a bit by sprinkling some plains instead of river grass, but still, most powerful.

Player 2:

This one spawned with sheep, pig and crabs.
I added the irrigated wheat and silk, which I may deforest. Still a bit weak, especially with the forests and short river, so I may do more for this one.

Player 3:

Still a bit weak. I added the silk.
The watery starts have the worst expansion prospects too.

Player 4:

Bit weak still, I might deforest the silk (silk and wheat were added). Silk is forested because he's got an extra happy, but I think the commerce might be needed. Wheat is off river because of the FP + sugar and river grass which means it has enough. This is also overreaction, and I'll likely irrigate it.
Surronding area is probably strongest, because its all land and has big area he can get that's still blocked off.

Player 5:

Another strong inland site. Also had silk added. The copper and floodplains being opposite regions is deliberate.



Some general pics of the land. I'm not skilled enough to give a stitch, and toroidial/lakesy is hard to show in that way, but this hopefully covers the general map.

The file hasn't changed from earlier.

[Commodore]

Toruslands look wonky to me, but those coastal starts are fairly terrible for FFH. Add a banana!

[DaveV]

I haven't had much time to look at this; my quick reaction is that unforested silk and incense are *way* better than forested silk, becaue the forest requires two extra techs to chop away before the latter tile becomes a significant source of commerce (and happiness). Likewise, grains are much stronger than animals, becuase Animal Husbandry is a secon-tier tech (and researching it means you're not researching Calendar to boost your farms). I'm probably repeating myself here, but your last map had some balance problems, and I think you're headed in that direction again.

[Qgqqqqq]

Yeah, I've since deforested.
I understand the animal concerns, and I'm really not adding any, just not removing the natural ones. My basic goal is to just add grains to take them to within shouting distance food level.
Could you give specific problems per start (based on updated one) and tell me whether you think they're equal ish.
@Commodore, taking that seriously, which ones need the food?
Very little changes, just trying to balance the happy's around and playing around with the starts/second cities to make them livable.