Diplomacy Master Thread- Helping Your Opponents Beat Themselves

[MWIN]

This includes an assumption that we get about 240 gold per turn for next 10 turns. They might looking for our ETA without help since they never said anything about amount of gold...

NH's Riifling ETA was t181, and KJN found a way to get it down to t180. Given the amount of population going to units saying something like t182 +/- a turn is reasonable.

Darrell

[antisocialmunky]

Let say we could get it done on turn X without your help, turn Y with a modest donation of 250 gpt from you guys, and Z if you would be willing to give us 500 gpt.

Give them some options so they don't have to waste the time doing math by guessing our numbers.

[Ruff_Hi]

Let say we could get it done on turn X without your help, turn Y with a modest donation of 250 gpt from you guys, and Z if you would be willing to give us 500 gpt.

+1

[scooter]

Guys we already sent the message .


So I'm back. I've been brainstorming today on what to do next. I have two ideas. I can't guarantee you'll like them both, but we'll see. One is to send a new message to CivFr. We did just send one two days ago, but I want to be far more forward with them. Something like this:

CivFr,

So I want to be more direct about our situation. We are about to face a 3v1 of Apolyton, CivPlayers, and CFC. All 3 of them have been fairly dishonest with us, and they'll be declaring war on us over the next few turns. This isn't too surpising, but it's too bad they feel they need to lie in addition to organizing a dogpile. I feel like you may have a vested interest in how the war goes down, so I wanted to bring it to your attention.

On T170, our NAPs with CivPlayers and Apolyton expire, and we expect them to declare roughly around that time. The have a lot of Rifles which we don't have yet, but I do believe we can handle that at great cost to ourself. The problem is that CFC's NAP expires on T175, and we fully expect them to pile on. The reality is we cannot defend both fronts - we can only really put a stop to one. That means CFC will be able to walk into our east side and possibly gain a bunch of cities if we don't get some outside help. The result of this is that CFC will probably win the game if they are unopposed.

I obviously don't expect you guys to want us to win or to help us win, but I also figure you guys REALLY don't want CFC to win because they stabbed your team in the back. They are an honorless team, and we'd prefer to see you, us, or anyone other than them win. My honest opinion is that if your team does not intervene with regards to CFC, they will win the game by absorbing our strongest cities because we can't defend them all. So I'd like to request two things:

1) Can you loan us 200 gold? We're trying to get to Rifling, and every bit helps. If you do this, we will give you back 300 gold by T190 at the absolute latest.
2) Can you use this window to force CFC to defend themselves rather than walk all over us?

You guys don't owe us anything, so I will completely understand if you just ignore this and do your own thing. If you do decide to help us, we will do everything in our power to help you in the future, even if it costs us. We would like to win of course, but more important to us is that CFC does not win. I would like to think we both feel the same on that last point. Sorry for the length of this message, and good luck with however you continue going forward.

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB

That's way longer than I would like to be with that team, but I think it's warranted here.

Now, here's another draft I'd like to send to both Apolyton and CivPlayers. I don't want to send it yet, but I want to send it as soon as they declare war.

Apolyton and CivPlayers,

Seems like war it is. I want to make sure you guys understand something going into it, because I know CFC is the big winner here. Obviously they will be joining the war in a few turns. We've spent weeks and months now trying to determine the best way to defend in a war with two fronts. Our conclusion is rather than defend both sides half-heartedly, we need to throw everything we have at one side and win that decisively, and what happens on the other side happens. As of right now, everything we have is on your border. We know what you have, and we have enough to kill it. We'll do that, and then CFC will join the war. We will have nothing over there to defend with, and they'll walk into our cities virtually unopposed.

We don't plan on doing much to stop them, because you have given us no choice. It's going to be a lot like our war with the German team. CFC will walk into lightly defended cities while your teams take the casualties. Ask WPC how much fun that is . You might be afraid of our large city size, but CFC's will be even bigger than that when this war is over, and we will do all that we can to make sure your teams do not get anything out of the war. We'll probably just counter-attack into your cities while CFC is capturing ours, because what's the point in carrying on seriously when your neighbors are just going to dopgile you anyway? That's exactly what the German team did to WPC, and it seems like a good plan for us to use too.

Or you could take 10T enforced peace with us, and we'll turn our army around and defend primarily against CFC instead. Isn't the whole point of this war to make it so you have a chance at winning? That's not happening if CFC is walking into empty cities while you guys do all the work. Remember - city gifting is banned, so it's not like they can just give you cities when the war is over. They'll be up to 40+ cities pretty easily with no major threats nearby, and it'll be about concession time then. So let me know if you want to delay this attack, and then you'll get to be the team likely walking into empty cities instead of CFC.

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB

We are getting dogpiled. We're at war, and it's time to get aggressive diplomatically.

[pindicator]

I like the CivFrance draft, but didn't we just send Apolyton a note saying "let's have a good war"?

[mostly_harmless]

We don't lose anything by sending these messages, I guess.

Do we also want to inform WPC of the coming war, for old times sake?

mh

[novice]

I don't think the message to CivPolyton will budge them, and I don't think we'd go through with the threats there either, so I'd rather not send that.

[darrelljs]

Shorter CivFr draft:

CivFr,

We are about to get declared on by Apolyton and CivPlayers (NAP expires t170). Our CFC NAP expires on t175. While we've painfully converted enough population into military to deal with Apolyton and CivPlayers (hopefully), we won't have enough left over to stop CFC from taking a sizable chunk of our land should they move in five turns later. Given CFC will probably win the game if they claim our land on top of Spain's, we were hoping you would be willing to help us in two ways:

1) Can you loan us 200 gold? If you do this, we will give you back 300 gold by T190 at the absolute latest.
2) Refrain from making peace or signing a NAP with CFC. If they are forced to defend their border with you, its possible we can scrape enough units together to slow them down.

You guys don't owe us anything, so I will completely understand if you just ignore this and do your own thing. If you do decide to help us, we will do everything in our power to help you in the future, even if it costs us. We would like to win of course, but more important to us is that CFC does not win. I would like to think we both feel the same on that last point.

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB

Not saying its better than yours, just that its shorter and gets directly to the point .

For the CivPoly draft, I guess my concern is again it makes them more likely to wait until t175.

Darrell

[Lord Parkin]

From UCiv:

Today we gave you 800 Gold.

[antisocialmunky]

I like these guys.

We should keep track of gold gifted and interest we need to pay in the stickied diplo thread.