[SPOILERS] Team EggHeads: DMOC and TeddyKGB (Now Lurker-Friendly!)

[TeddyKGB]

One of test runs: SIP, Worker 1st.

Tech: Hunt + Mining > AH(t14) > Fish(t20) > BW(t34)
Build: Wo(12) > War(20) > WB(28) > War(30) > Set(36)
City Size: 2(19) > 3(23) > 4(27) > 5(30)
Improvements: Deer(15) > Pig(20) > Mine(25) > Fish(28) > Mine(30). Worker idle for 3 turns before chopping.

Not a good one, I know.

[DMOC]

If anyone need it, I've made a starting save. Settings are similar to DMOC's post here. Civ is China, but you can WB starting techs as you like.
WB save if you like to use mod, I kinda like Buffy mod myself.

It's tempting to go Worker 1st in 12 turns since we are EXP, but I didn't like it after testing. Techin slow and some worker turns wasted. I'll post results later, gonna try WorkBoat 1st now.

While China has the best overall starting techs of Agriculture and Mining, it's worth pointing out that our start is actually more suited towards a Hunting/Fishing kind of start. Greece and Vikings are the only ones that start with that. Vikings are below average, but Greece isn't too bad. Still, I can't rate them as high as Byzantium.

I still want a worker first, though, since it's so important to have our improvements done ASAP, it's worth the price of having an idle worker for a few turns. But with Byzantium, which starts with Mysticism and The Wheel (the latter of which is tied with Agriculture as the most expensive starting tech!), our workers will never be idle since we can pre-road tiles.

I just upgraded my BUFFY so I can check the save later, but I'll probably start my own save later today or tomorrow. I'm pretty busy today.

In my opinion, there are 3 solid choices. We can (1) settle in place, (2) move settler 8 and settle there, or (3) move settler 1-7 and settle there. The first 2 choices let us settle on the first turn and retain all 3 food resources, while the third uses up a turn but may result in a far stronger capital down the road with more land tiles and possibly more forests. The second option loses freshwater, and the third option likely does as well, but since we are Expansive, it's not too bad.

With our traits, we need to get workers and settlers out ASAP.


Edit: By the way, since the last team took the Ragnar/Rome combination and the other team ahead of us took Sumeria during their first pick (and thus must pick a leader), we're basically guaranteed to get the civilization of our choosing. Are we okay with Byzantium? Again, some possible options include Greece, Egypt, Ottoman, or Mayans. To be honest, I still think Byzantium is the best of these options for this particular kind of game.

As for settling, in my opinion, we should decide would be better (2) or (3) and send scout north or east and after decide SIP or move settler.

Choosing civ is totally up to you two. Since you both like Byz, its decided. I kinnda value good starting techs over good UU/UB myself.

Yeah, we definitely need to move the scout. I would suggest moving the scout west. I'm not sure how we could move him east, since there's water in the way. But let's wait until the map is finished, since we can tile-bleed and see which move would reveal the most important tiles.

I also think we're set on Byzantium since dick76 supported that pick. I value good unique units and building over good starting techs, especially since we could play out this start multiple ways (e.g. settle in place or move west) which would change our definition of "good starting techs."

One of test runs: SIP, Worker 1st.

Tech: Hunt + Mining > AH(t14) > Fish(t20) > BW(t34)
Build: Wo(12) > War(20) > WB(28) > War(30) > Set(36)
City Size: 2(19) > 3(23) > 4(27) > 5(30)
Improvements: Deer(15) > Pig(20) > Mine(25) > Fish(28) > Mine(30). Worker idle for 3 turns before chopping.

Not a good one, I know.

Thanks for the sim, I'll take a look at it. We definitely want our second city up by turn 40 (preferably in the mid 30s) so it looks like that sim lets us do that.

----

I'll post in the tech thread that we're picking Byzantium.

To the team: this upcoming weekend is going to be quite busy for me, but I'll keep checking in here now and then. Hopefully we'll have a long turn timer for the first turn, since after this weekend I can dedicate more time to figuring out an opening.

[TeddyKGB]

Another one with WB 1st before starting to test Byz.

Tech: Fish+Mine > Hunt(7) > AH(19) > BW(32) > Wheel(40)
Build: WB(8) > [War 4/15h] > Wo(20) > [War 11/15h, 1h decay later] > Wo(29) > War(32) > Set(36) with 2*chops
City Size: 2(12) > 3(24) > 4(32)
Improvements: Fish(8) > Pig(23) > Deer(28) > Mine(31) > Chop(35), Chop(35)

After WB, grow to size 2 in 4 turns to use EXP bonus on Worker. AH not ready till t19 so its just one turn slower compare to WB>Worker at size 1.

[TeddyKGB]

I use China for sims with different starting techs, as I said. Tried Agri+Fish start to get discount on AH, but didn't like the result.
Anyway, as we choose Byz I'll try to sim it now.

Edit: sorry about east-west mistake.

[TeddyKGB]

Kind of slow start it is, with so many techs to research.

Best I can do so far: settle on PH, ignore Fishing obv, 1 Worker, 2 Warrios, grow to 3 and start settler.
Settler ready T33. 2nd city on T34 with overlap Pig and mine. Instant trade route.

Start with Byz techs, not China.

[DMOC]

Hm ... your last one is pretty interesting. It does get the settler out quick, but I wouldn't settle on top of the plains hill in this case. The main reason is that we're already going to be a bit short on production, and there's no guarantee we'll get extra hills when we move there. We do get 3 useless tiles, though the fish will still be 5 food 2 commerce even if the capital isn't coastal. Though there's also the risk of getting bad tiles if we move 2 west ... but even the tundra forest isn't bad since we can get 20 hammers from a chop.

By the way, our official leader pick is Suryavarman II (Exp/Cre) of Byzantium (Hippodrome/Cataphract). Our starting technologies are Mysticism and The Wheel, so we'll have to likely start out with some form of Hunting -> AH to improve our food. If we settle in place, we'll get some much-needed commerce which could help us land an early religion.

[dick76]

I currently play in at 7 MP games CIV IV, but I can not say that I am an excellent player, mostly I'm happy medium, but in the last game I was winning coalitions As I said above, I'm good in the war but my lame knowledge of urban development

[TeddyKGB]

Hm ... your last one is pretty interesting. It does get the settler out quick, but I wouldn't settle on top of the plains hill in this case. The main reason is that we're already going to be a bit short on production, and there's no guarantee we'll get extra hills when we move there. We do get 3 useless tiles, though the fish will still be 5 food 2 commerce even if the capital isn't coastal. Though there's also the risk of getting bad tiles if we move 2 west ... but even the tundra forest isn't bad since we can get 20 hammers from a chop.

By the way, our official leader pick is Suryavarman II (Exp/Cre) of Byzantium (Hippodrome/Cataphract). Our starting technologies are Mysticism and The Wheel, so we'll have to likely start out with some form of Hunting -> AH to improve our food. If we settle in place, we'll get some much-needed commerce which could help us land an early religion.

I'm agree with you that settling on PH could be not optimal in the long run. Just wanna explore this option too.
Although, in my opinion, hammer boost from T1 is pretty valuable. On screenshot above its 35 free hammers on T36.
Settling GH and work PH mine gives you 0f/5h. Vice versa: 1f/5h.
Of course, settling on coast is another story, but we'll be teching so slow (especially compare to almost everyone FIN here), I just doubt we'll be safe after tech Fishing and build WB. All my sims was like we decide ignore Fishing and move inland, so it was PH vs GH settling. If u don't mind, I'd like to optimize PH start and you or anyone else could sim coast or GH start so we can compare and decide later. With all that fog it could be useless, but we can't help it right now. For all we know could be double wet corn and gems in BFC if we settle on GH.
One more thing, there is a small chance Copper/Iron is on that GH, so settling it wouldn't be so hot.

Just ignore China flag on my screenshots. I did start with Myst + Wheel in my sims, just too lazy to make a new WB file.
Tech was Hunt>AH>Mining>BW. As you can see BW due T42.
Worker goes Deer>Road>Road>Pigs>Road>Mine>Mine. Could save 1 worker turn if skip Road on Deer, but I've started 1st Mine right in turn Mining was researched, same with Pasture, so I don't think its matter.

As for early religion, are you sure we need one?
We are CRE so borders will pop well without it.
We are not FIN so we'll be teching slow and with so many basic techs we need ASAP its hard to find a room for another one.
We are not SPI so we'll lose one turn to revolt.
We already paint a big target sign on our civ (rush them before knights era kinda sign), are you sure we wanna make this sign even bigger with early religion?

[TeddyKGB]

Two and a half more topics to discuss here, if anyone bored with micro.

(1) - We need a team name. Here one of the rules for this game: Every team needs a fancy/awesome/impossible-pronounce-or-remember name.

(1.5) - We need a naming scheme for our cities/units/workers. Something that works with team name, probably.

(2.5) - More serious one. As I see it right now, diplomacy will be pretty important for us to survive till knights. Some picks were a bit scary. We are starting behind with no good techs and no FIN. Can we talk our way out of troubles? How much you respect NAPs? How much you think our neighbors will respect NAPs? Any other thoughts?

[TeddyKGB]

Just a reminder:

8. Team Eagles & Condors - Kurumi / HBHR (with Oxyphenbutazone dedlurking)
Pacal II (Fin/Exp) || ??

10. Team Dinosaurs - Whiteye / Raptorous
Darius I (Fin/Org) || ??

3. Team Master and Margarita - Slaze / Maga_R (with Jovan Kukic dedlurking)
Willem (Fin/Cre) || ??

6. Bowsling / Aivoturso
Mansa Musa (Fin/Spi) || ??

1. Team Orgynized - Lord Parkin / Arkipeller / Magno_uy (with WilliamLP and Dp101 dedlurking)
Huayna Capac (Fin/Ind) || Netherlands (EastIndiaman (Galleon) and Dike (some smartass joke here); Fish/Agri)

2. Team Blame Caledorn - YossarianLives / Caledorn (with Scooter, Old Harry and Cheater Hater dedlurking)
Isabella (Spi/Exp) || Inca (Quecha (Warrior) and Terrace (Granary); Myst/Agri)

4. Team Care Bears - Yuufo / Bisons
Victoria (Fin/Imp) || India (Fast Worker (Worker) and Mausoleum (Jail); Myst/Mining)

7. Dick76 / DMOC -
Suryavarman II (Exp/Cre) || Byzantium (Cataphract (Knight) and Hippodrome (Theatre); Myst/Wheel)

5. Team My Little Marathon Cannibal Pony - Classical_Hero / Halvgud
Napoleon (Org/Cha) || Sumeria (Vulture (Axe) and Ziggurat (Courthouse); Wheel/Agri)

9. Barteq / Geo (with Harami dedlurking)
Ragnar (Fin/Agg) || Rome (Praetorian (Sword) and Forum (Market); Fish/Mining)