(August 26th, 2013, 23:50)MJW (ya that one) Wrote: The problem is not that the average has to be around 1. It would have to be exactly 1 for Zak's plan to work; which is very unlikely.
For the record, I do concede that this is probably true. So maybe you are in fact right about the theory here, but I feel that is kind of beside the point.
MJW could be scum, but if he's not, Azarius looks a bit shady for post #52. I also doubt that both Jkaen and MJW are scum together.
(August 26th, 2013, 18:08)Gazglum Wrote: Jowy, I see what you mean about Q responding to you, and I know it was a joke. I'm a bit wary of it though, because after what we Observed last game, I came into this game thinking that you might make a good early scapegoat for wolves wanting to use any emotions from last game to turn people onto you. And I'm interested that you seem to have already attracted a Scandinavian bandwagon.
What's interesting about that? Do you feel that we've tried to use him as a scapegoat?
Since Jowy doesn't come off as very scummy so far, I'll move my vote to Gazglum, who may be buddying up to him.
I don't think anybody is particularly scapegoating Jowy, which is why I'm not voting you. I do think that he would make a good mislynch target after last game, which I why I was sensitive to votes for him.
Also, I'm not voting Matt for his post count. It's the content - I thought that post smelled more constructed than natural. Especially the last, irrelevant question. Perhaps I'm oversensitive to Matt after watching his supervillain skills from the inside last time, but right now it's the scummiest thing on the field for me.
You can policy-lynch me if you like, I didn't expect to be as busy as I am at work as I had not expected to have to work on a 250 million euro project besides other stuff. So yeah. You can not do it as well though, would save you the trouble to talk about a mislynch and if those pushing it were sincere or not.
Apart from that, if you guys believe it is hard to catch me in any case, shouldn't it be easier if I have less time? Obviously I can't make as elaborate cases or dig through every single post, but that doesn't mean that I can't state my opinion on what others wrote. I just won't have the time to re-read my posts 20 times to make sure there is nothing "bad" in them. I mean in the end that I have time is what leads to you guys not catching me.
Ok, that said, as for the actual game, I don't like MJWs play so far. Jkaen mentioned that he would vote everyone else if he had played like MJW but MJW has a different baseline. I agree in general, but in this case I don't think it applies. It's not some crazy theory that MJW has come up with, it is just him pushing someone for weak reasons.
MJW
And one thing I'd like to add: I find it kinda hilarious that we seldom policy-lynch anyone and I can't remember that we EVER policy-lynched someone on D1 and yet you guys discuss in honesty to policy-lynch one of the most active players of any WW he played in because he COULD be less active than normal. You guys realize that me being less active is probably still more active than half the players in this game, eh?
Ok, here is Mattimeo's post that Gazglum finds suspicious.
(August 26th, 2013, 00:21)Mattimeo Wrote: I'd interpreted 'flavour' to be the fluff surrounding the general situation / roles. Vanilla town is still vanilla town, just might have a fancy name like 'Farmer' or 'Employee', with story to link that in.
And yeah, even number of people generally means you want either a no-kill day/night, or a double kill day/night. And (generally) the easiest of them to force is a no-kill day.
However, lack of a legal no lynch vote. Why is this a common thing with games here?
I have a hard time getting anything other than a null read from it. I do agree that Mattimeo displayed good supervillain skills in his last scum game, so I guess we can add him to the list of good policy lynches.
Serdoa - that post you just made is your second post, and there was no way to know when you would post again. So I think your indignation is misplaced. It might be easier to catch you if you have less time, but not if we accept that you just post less as a consequence. (Yeah, that sounds a bit cold hearted but hopefully you see my point.)
I would like to hear from classical_hero before the day ends, both your general thoughts and an explanation on why is Azza a shady character in your opinion and why it warrants a vote against him.
Because it can lead to situation in which both parties would rather not lynch/kill anyone. 3-1 endgame for example. Town doesn't want to lynch (if wrong they will lose), but scum doesn't want to kill either (makes it easier for town to choose the correct player).
hm, point. Though in the vast majority of situations I'd think the scum would bring it to LyLo after a no-lynch at MyLo. Not killing gives almost as much information as killing someone, at that point.
(August 26th, 2013, 18:08)Gazglum Wrote: But since Q's explained his classical_hero pressure, I'll try Mattimeo. The short meta post is in character, but that semi-rhetorical question at the end feels a bit oh so casual.
...and how exactly does casual == scum, again? Or even, how are you defining 'casual' here? I certainly wouldn't have pulled that question out as a demonstration of a casual attitude to this game...
MJW is just harping on too much about zak's initial suggestion, which is honestly not a terrible idea in a mountainous even-numbered game. Not that this is likely to be mountainous, but no-lynching is also not a legal option. I just don't see how spending the entire day talking about only that and policy lynching a new player is remotely helpful.
-- Don’t forget.
Always, somewhere,
someone is fighting for you.
-- As long as you remember her,
you are not alone.
(Aside: I don't understand what you mean by mountainous there Mattimeo.)
You're right that I wasn't very clear in my attack on you. WHen I said oh so casual, I mean a studied casualness. A 'let's throw out a conversational tidbit to end the conversation and perhaps divert it a bit'. It just didn't read as natural to me. I know that will be frustrating to read for you if you're town, but that's the vibe I got and I still got it.
I'll try and explain a bit better. Werewolf is obviously a game where we have to ask each other questions, but there are different kinds of questions you can ask. Direct questions aimed at getting information from a specific person are good, like "CH, why do you think Azza is shady?"
But questions are also a way for scum to fill space and seem to contribute without having to put themselves out there with reads. So leading questions, or rhetorical questions, or questions not really aimed at anybody in particular ping my scumdar. Your "why is this a common thing here?" is just like that. It's not aimed at anybody, it's not really relevant, it's a way of involving yourself without involving yourself.
The other play I've noted playing the questioning game is Azarius.
(August 26th, 2013, 11:34)Azarius Wrote:
Quote:I agree in part, but it's not as black and white in my opinion. Only if abnormality leads to play that does not catch wolves, only then it is a scum tell, though it is suspicious and good to take note of regardless. Someone playing a different game could also be a villager trying to be more effective and beneficial to the village, at least I would hope that players learn from their mistakes and try to play better every game. And I realize you did say that acting differently is suspicious as opposed to a scum tell, but from the context I figured you were using those words interchangeably (which I am not in this post :P)
Jowy, how do you get this from what Jkaen said? I read what he wrote as saying that acting anti-town isn't necessarily[/spoiler] a scum tell, but he believes acting differently is suspicious and therefore a scum tell. Correct me if I misunderstand please Jkaen.
Question for Jowy, question of Jkaen, but not really adding anything. He's parroting Jkaen. And the stance he takes he lessens by suggesting that maybe he misunderstood after all. All so...casual. But Azarius is new, and comparing the posts, I think I like you for scum more than him, Mattimeo. I'm trying the Ichabod strategy - go with my gut on an outlier Day 1.
I know it's a reach, but its day 1 and I don't have much else to go on. I don't like this MJW attack, how many games have we played where MJW has been the subject of this kind of discussion Day 1? He's always drawing attention to himself. And he's a blabbermouth (as am I MJW!), so when he is a wolf he's more likely to leave clues or trip himself up later anyway.
I've said in a lot of games that I dont' like the way Day 1s so often end with lynching the loud person, because the its quiet sharks you gotta watch out for. Last game I then went against that philosophy and tried to kill Jowy, but that was because I was a noob wolf struggling to make reads and looking for a mislynch.
This time I'll stick to my guns. Azarius and Mattimeo are my top suspects, and they're both on MJW. I don't like the wagon. If necessary, I'd vote Azarius over Mattimeo if that would tip it away from MJW.
(August 27th, 2013, 05:02)Gazglum Wrote: (Aside: I don't understand what you mean by mountainous there Mattimeo.)
My bad, turns out you need to google it with 'mafia' rather than 'werewolf' to get a clear explanation. I probably should have checked with both before assuming that people would be capable of easily ascertaining meaning.
Quote:You're right that I wasn't very clear in my attack on you. WHen I said oh so casual, I mean a studied casualness. A 'let's throw out a conversational tidbit to end the conversation and perhaps divert it a bit'. It just didn't read as natural to me. I know that will be frustrating to read for you if you're town, but that's the vibe I got and I still got it.
I'll try and explain a bit better. Werewolf is obviously a game where we have to ask each other questions, but there are different kinds of questions you can ask. Direct questions aimed at getting information from a specific person are good, like "CH, why do you think Azza is shady?"
But questions are also a way for scum to fill space and seem to contribute without having to put themselves out there with reads. So leading questions, or rhetorical questions, or questions not really aimed at anybody in particular ping my scumdar. Your "why is this a common thing here?" is just like that. It's not aimed at anybody, it's not really relevant, it's a way of involving yourself without involving yourself.
Ah, I see the problem here. You assumed it was a genuine question, rather than an accusation against a practice I disagree with.
-- Don’t forget.
Always, somewhere,
someone is fighting for you.
-- As long as you remember her,
you are not alone.
