WW27 Game Thread: Once there were 12

[novice]

I'm getting guests over so I'll sign off for a while. I like what I've seen from Gazglum today, hence the unvote.

It would be interesting to reread day one and see if there were any reactions to zak and I's miniwagon on Jowy. I don't have time right now though.

[Jowy]

No, Jowy, they are not obvious questions. I'm trying to piece together what went on with you yesterday. One uncharitable interpretation is this:
- when deadline neared and it was time for everybody to take a stance, you made a highly dubious case against Zak with multiple logical flaws.
- you acknowledged the flaws as they were pointed out but still didn't move your vote
- your backup candidate was Gazglum, which he conveniently became after he had gone to sleep
- when Gazglum came back online you were uninterested in pursuing him. Or Zak for that matter.
- when questioned by me you vote for me instead of answering my questions

There were no logical flaws that I could see. What was pointed out to me was that there is a possibility that our perception on Zak's original post might have changed along the way due to the questioning that followed. While it is a lessening factor, it does not change the fact that his play was scummy and he was a good lynch candidate for Day 1. You are lying about Gazglum, I had pointed out what I found scummy about him and voted for him earlier in the day. He did not "conveniently become" anything after he had went to sleep, he was already a target long before that. I read Gazglum's answer. I don't think it's an explanation that removes the scum lean I have on him. Should I repeat myself and make the same case again that I already made? Well, perhaps if it was the best one I had, then I would, but I had a much better case now. You also lie that my play was reactive, when in reality I pointed out problems I had with your gameplay way before you started "questioning" me. If anything, it's you who's reacting to my accusations by trying to put blame on me.

( the rest )

Yes, you tried twice to get a Serdoa policy lynch going, but had to give up when he started posting. The set-up would obviously be for Day 2. Have you lost both your memory and your sense? :P I don't buy your explanation on Gazglum, it contradicts with what you've said before, as I explained in my case. And as for your change in play, I think it's more likely that a scum would be cautious at first, and when he notices he might be in trouble for it, he tries to change his act to stay alive. Would a villager do the same in the same situation? Perhaps, but I think it's more likely that a villager gives his all from the beginning, rather than waiting until someone calls him out.

[Azarius]

Jowy, your large post against novice seems very flimsy. I don't consider him having expressed interest in voting for Serdoa if he remained at almost no posts to be trying to start something against him. Rather, it seems likely he was hoping to prod Serdoa into action so that he could form more of an opinion on him. I also don't follow your logic regarding Serdoa's death. Novice expresses interest in possibly lynching Serdoa if he does not post more. Serdoa dies. I don't think that alone really implicates novice. It follows that I don't see how you can use as an example scum trying to setup a novice mislynch by killing Serdoa. I also agree with zakalwe that the questions novice has been asking have not all been answered or have obvious answers. This whole post feels disingenuous. Also, leaving your vote on zak at the end of day one, if you were around to change it, seems bad. You say you aren't sure if you should vote for the lesser of two evils, instead of someone you yourself suspect. Certainly throughout the day vote your suspicions, I'm not saying you should blindly follow others. But at the end of the day, if you are voting somewhere it is impossible to matter, it is suspect to me. Leaving your vote on as the sole vote on someone going into a lynch makes it easier to hide if you are scum, and you can just say "it is who I suspect".

[Azarius]

For sake of clarification since I just crossposted with Jowy, my last post refers to his post where he votes novice.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Well, I'm back. Mattimeo has posted some things so now I can start to take this day seriously. Az, I could'nt before as floating around with five posts is not cool and is sure to get you killed. So I would not be able to influnce the lynch which takes away a powerful motivator from me. Decideing who to lynch is supposed to be the point of the game!

I've read your explation of why Serdoa was the expected night kill. Using the word "expected" is a bit too much but other than that it looks good. Using it implies being more than 50% sure but there's a good chance that this is not what you ment...

[Qgqqqqq]

When I say target I mean post about in a negative way.

Having done that exercise its not quite as scattergun and random as I had the impression, as the same names do seem to crop up in different posts quite often.

I'm not actually suspicious of matt, just have been trying to get him to contribute. My current suspicions are around MJW, azza (who hasn't been contributing at all, and doesn't seem to justify his suspicions), and Jowy (I think he's dropped off the radar a bit, but there seemed to be quite a few flaws in his posts, especially where he didn't follow through. This is weak because I'm not sure if this is just his village play which I'm finding scummy again).
Below them, who I think have some scummy elements and some town ones (so null tell, or on the near lean either way), so pretty well null tells is novice, (who I liked jowys points on last night, but who I think has played very in character. Still have yet to see much from, but then we had a low tells day 1...null tell), zak (I feel zak hasn't played quite in character with his cases, and hasnt been herding them as well as I would expect. Some cases, like azarius day 1, I didn't really understand or thought were weak. Otoh, he has had to contend with MJW all yesterday, and I think that probably distracted him/took up a lot of time, and the way it was handled seemed in character. Slight village lean here, but expecting something today), matt (I haven't heard enough to judge. I thought his stuff earlier was mostly good though, and the sort of posts I hoped he would contribute. Null tell still), and Gazglum (despite my earlier points, I definitely think Gazglum has been playing in character today. I like a lot of his points too. Village lean tbh).
So for the rest :
Jkaen - has felt very in character, playing both normally and villagery. Liked his contributions a lot.
Azarius - quite quiet, but I like everything he's said.
Qgqqqqq - I just have a gut read on this guy, y'know

Some people don't like these lists, but I feel its helped organize my thoughts.

Thanks novice.
So the reason I think zaks post was pre planned independent of alignment, is because it was suggested in spite of the rules, which indicates he was thinking of it beforehand, and because it felt like a suggestion from someone who's played 25odd of these trying to mix up day 1. I can't imagine he would plan it once he got his alignment, I don't see why you think it was a ploy at all. That's why I feel it was clearly planned pre game.
On the subject of which, matt has shown up, do you have anything to add?


I disagree with Jowy on novice, but I think Azarius sums up my view nicely. Could you quote posts Jowy, as I don't remember seeing two pushes for serdoa (for example)?
And, yeah, you should repeat yourself or quote relative points. Trust me, its the only way to get people to follow your reads is to shove them in their face until they either refute them or agree with you.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Qgqqqqq:

I tend to stick to one target. For example, "lynch uberfish!". I switched off day one when I noticed C_H and mattimeo had very low content after the mod linked the posts. The fact that C_H really did'nt vote anyone sealed the deal. I feel that the village should just not tolerate people who don't vote. And today has just started for me, so my posts have not been about who to lynch.

If a wolf got busted then I would eat my hat if the mod used "EVER". That makes no sense if he knows a wolf is going down. Period. Also, mattimeo has shown up so I'm ready to go.

My lack of interaction dayone is caused by me wanting to kill Zak but no-one caring about me case aganist him.

[Qgqqqqq]

Sure, you can focus on him. But either give your thoughts and feelings on other stuff that's been said or different stuff that he's done beyond your interpretation of his opening post, which is not gonna get you support for the lynch.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Mattimeo:
Crap really means stuff.
C_H was tied for you in number votes. And at least you voted someone...(joke votes don't count)

[MJW (ya that one)]

Sure, you can focus on him. But either give your thoughts and feelings on other stuff that's been said or different stuff that he's done beyond your interpretation of his opening post, which is not gonna get you support for the lynch.

There's nothing really that bad. However, because Zak is one of the best players this would not be surprising at all. His posts seem to lack inspiration and Zak seems to be happy to go with the flow. Rather than his usaul self of trying to detremine who gets lyched.

The fact that Serdoa was strongest attacking Novice followed by him does'nt help him ether.