[SPOILERS] Dhal gets ready to bungle another game (oh yeah some guy is dedlurking)

[Dhalphir]

I'll be very interested to see which leaders drop first. my first preference will be Sury, then Joao. Being only fifth, I don't think I'll miss out on both of those - not with all the power leaders and civs still available.

[Dhalphir]

Worth noting that none of my sims allow for early contact with other civs giving prereq discounts on any of my techs, because it can't be predicted. Worth remembering though.

[Molach]

I'll be watching this.

However keep lookout for more dedlurkers, as I really am not too experienced in MP. But I suppose it is good to have someone to bounce ideas off from anyway.

Suggestions:
1. Do not feel you need to pick in a hurry. You have complete control of your leader/civ pairing, and this is important. So take your time here. You want lurker input, right? So no hurry.

2.

Actually, as it's another wet toroid:
"You can have 5 points.

4: FIN
3: EXP, ORG, India, Inca
2: SPI, IND, CRE, Vikings, Dutch
1: PHI, Holy Rome, All other Agriculture civs
0: IMP, CHA, AGG, PRO, All other civs"

Since Agri costs a pick but hunting doesn't, and you could use either for prereq to AH then it might be good to save a point here. Depends, of course. Which is again why you will be forgiven for taking 1-2 days picking your civ/leader.

3. If you improve the sheep first you save a worker turn. It is arguably weaker, though - +2 commerce vs. 1 food. (If you end up FIN then it becomes +3 commerce)

Anyway need to see others' picks before we can say too much about what will fit together.

[Dhalphir]

when I simmed it out, the settler came on turn 29 with sheep first and turn 28 with pig first. since I'm probably going worker worker settler, I won't be working the sheep for a while anyway

that is dependent upon confirmation that we all started with a scout though. i'm hesitant to ask that in the public thread because it will obviously tip off the others that I have a scout start, if they have warriors.

[Dhalphir]

At the current time my thinking is

favoured leader picks

1) Sury
2) Joao
3) Vicky

no particular order - I'm really not sure of the best way to differentiate. From what I can see from other spoiler threads in other games, most of the time veteran players tend to pick based on what they think is interesting, or combos they haven't played much. Since I'm new, pretty much any combo will be new and interesting to me. Given that starting techs and UUs are often not as important as leader traits, I'm planning to spend my points on my leader and go for a Hunting/Mining civ of either Russia or Ethiopia. The one exception will be if I decide on Joao - I might pair him with the Dutch and go for sea dominance in the midgame.

[Dhalphir]

What do lurkers think of the Vicky + Ottoman combo? Vicky costs 4 pts and Otto costs 1. Hammams are an awesome way to alleviate reliance on Hereditary Rule (which always makes offensive warfare difficult given you usually end up depending on 3-4 military police per city.)

[Dhalphir]

Azza takes Bismarck.

That's got to be either

a) A plan to get a fast Stonehenge and then Oracle + something (CoL?)
b) A plan to delay Stonehenge but get it anyway by using IND to discourage the rest of us from even trying for the wonder
c) ??????

But which civ will he want? Not that it matters, he'll have to scrape the barrel with pick 10.

One thing for sure - this devalues Joao and increases Sury's desirability to me, because I'm less likely to be able to score Stonehenge, and I don't really want to have to chop out a Monument/Stele (if I'm Ethiopia) in every goddamn city. Hate that. If you gotta choose between Exp and Imp, Exp has got to win out because you make more workers than settlers anyway. Probably why Exp costs a point. If I do take Sury, I can't take the Dutch, so I'll almost certainly go for my Hunting/Mining start with Russia or Ethiopia.

[Dhalphir]

snake pick so far

1. Azza - Bismarck (EXP/IND)
2. The Black Sword
3. BaII
4. dtay
5. Dhal
6. Dhal
7. dtay
8. BaII
9. The Black Sword
10. Azza

[Molach]

Fin is strong, also on a sea map. Imp is good for early growth. So vicky is good.

If she gets taken, Hannibal Fin/Cha is perhaps next in line? Hammam + Cha means you can get large (cottaged) cities pretty early.

Regarding the sheep - pigs is better tile in foodhammers. You gain 1 turn improvent on the sheep, but after 2 turns pig catches up. You get more commerce, though, especially with FIN. A non-mining start like Ottomans means you get BW faster. Perhaps best to sim out what happens after that first settler. Early city plant is worth 4 foodhammers or so

Also sim out whether it doesn't pay to grow a size after you build the first pasture - say worker worker (grow warrior 3 turns) settler.

Commodore, is this an all-scout start?

[Dhalphir]

can't really sim out what happens with the first settler until I know whether I'll have spare workers for chops etc or whether I'll be improving/connecting the new city immediately.

regarding the growing, my current plan has me build a warrior to grow to size 2 before the second worker, since BW will be a little bit delayed after AH. That was with an imperialistic and expansive sim though, so I will need to sim things out again before making any civ choice final. Need to sim as a financial civ too.