[SPOILERS] Team Orgynized: Parkin/Arki/Magno embark on a kinky adventure

[Arkipeller]

Have we got any answers from MagaSub. We really need to discuss the EP-spending

[Lord Parkin]

Hmmm... is it? We could let them get TGL and then take the city later.
Considering number of small inland seas found by now, I would say that TGL has a lot of potential... so does the collossus.

I'm not so sure about the Great Lighthouse... it'll be mediocre at best for the forseeable future, as only our capital will count as a coastal city until we start founding further north/south (which might not be until city 4/5/6). Add to the fact that folks are inclined to arrange anti-OB pacts against the Great Lighthouse owner, and it's possible you'd barely break even from the thing. It'd probably still be a net gain - especially if you could convince at least a couple of civs to keep borders open - but the unpredictability is a problem.

The Colossus would be an okay build - cheap, at least - but it's likely to be nabbed by whoever gets the Oracle. It'd be worth 1 commerce per turn to us right now, though of course that would improve with time.

Really nice work with the micro to build SH in 1 turn at 0 risk, and also ending it with the workers ready to move south! I have absolutely no question that an EOT 40 SH vindicates the second worker before a settler, much more than a lot of extra mines do.

It wasn't zero risk as turn order is randomized in simultaneous turn games - it's possible if someone else was finishing it on T41 that we wouldn't get it. But checking the score on Civstats, it looks like we did.

This going to give us a big score lead, for better or worse. I think Civ 4 score is dumb, but it does stare everyone in the face whenever they log in or look at CivStats.

Not too big, we're only 9 points ahead right now. But it's unfortunate our score is skewed like that, yeah.

A personality read on Oxy and Sutt: They're both in PB11 (a greens game) with me, but they seem like really bright guys who know their basics and are learning a lot. And (no spoilers) from CivStats several cities have been conquered between them in that game. So, if they're at war in one game and able to work together in another that maybe says something about their personality? I'm pretty impressed, actually. It could have been another Slaze / Maga situation.

Okay, thanks for the info.

What do you think of GLH on this map? There may be a surprising number of possible coastal cities. Any other wonders you have your sights on yet? Prefer to keep things a bit close to the chest?

Answered above about GLH. Not sure we'll have that many coastal cities, though of course we need to explore more to be sure.

Right now the debate is between GLH, Oracle and Pyramids. We won't get all of them, but we should be able to get at least one if we focus on it.

Also, what an interesting start from care bears, to horizontally expand as fast as possible (literally) while whipping cities immediately. My guess is with you that they'll fade out sooner rather than later as the benefits of bigger cities and earlier worker improvements become apparent.

I guess we'll see, but 3 cities so early does seem a bit dubious for this map unless they've got some remarkable terrain.

Have we got any answers from MagaSub. We really need to discuss the EP-spending

Not a whisper. Given the similar quirks between Maga and MagaSub (rare issue blocking other people from the game, long bouts of radio silence), I'm half wondering whether the "sub" thing was just an excuse to keep playing without bothering with the diplomacy for a while. Either that, or if it's really a different guy that's not exactly a great sub - not even responding to a quick greeting? Not sure what to think there.

At least Maga/MagaSub is not spending EP on us for now.

[Lord Parkin]

Turn 41

Domestics

Time for another Worker, then a Warrior while we grow and quickly onto another Settler.

Demographics

Margarita, Eagles & Condors and GG got a population growth each.

[Lord Parkin]

Turn 42

Domestics

Katniss was founded.

Empire-wide shot:

Demographics

We're about average in terms of beakers, once you subtract away the Stonehenge cultural contribution to GNP.

Eagles & Condors whipped 2 pop last turn. Care Bears founded their fourth city this turn - they're surely hurting with maintenance costs at this point. Expanding that fast can't be beneficial if their land is anything like ours.

City count:

Care Bears - T28, T37, T42
EggHeads - T33
Blame Caledorn - T33
Eagles & Condors - T36
Gladiator's Glory - T38
Margarita - T38
Bowsling - T38
Dinosaurs - T39
Orgynized - T42
Cannibal Ponies - not yet

[WilliamLP]

Eagles & Condors whipped 2 pop last turn. Care Bears founded their fourth city this turn - they're surely hurting with maintenance costs at this point. Expanding that fast can't be beneficial if their land is anything like ours.

Wow... They've put 200 hammers into settlers already then! That's crazy, I bet a single warrior could get into their empire and do some damage right now. And I can't see them having more than 1 worker yet (?) or enough GNP to get to things like Pottery anytime soon?

[Lord Parkin]

Wow... They've put 200 hammers into settlers already then! That's crazy, I bet a single warrior could get into their empire and do some damage right now. And I can't see them having more than 1 worker yet (?) or enough GNP to get to things like Pottery anytime soon?

I doubt many folks have Warriors exploring rival borders already, and there won't be many barb Warriors around yet. I'm sure at worst they could whip a Warrior in an emergency. They probably have 2-3 Workers at this point - there was a turn with two whips just recently, which I'm assuming was a Worker rather than a Settler in a non-capital city - but for 4 cities you want 4-5 or more Workers. The GNP difference is the most noticeable effect - by my count, at this point they're the only team with just 5 techs researched. Everyone else has 6 techs under their belts, and we even have 7.

I see that some team built the Stonehenge ...I wonder who could built it and I think it's Orgy team. They have industrial leader and maybe they find stone resource...Am I right.

Many team has used the civic SLavery..who is neighbour of aggressive Rome...They have Copper very fast and Agressive axes too.
The competition is loooking good, some team has two cities.
Orgy also is the leader at the moment.

Uh... thanks, captain obvious? He seems to have missed the fact that one team has 4 cities. And does he really not know how to determine wonder locations by score differences? Also, I'm bemused about the stone comment - you never build Stonehenge with stone amongst human rivals, unless you start with it right next to your Settler. Even then you have to detour to Masonry minimum (and Wheel if it's not under your capital) before finishing it, which often isn't worth it that early.

[WilliamLP]

Uh... thanks, captain obvious? He seems to have missed the fact that one team has 4 cities. And does he really not know how to determine wonder locations by score differences? Also, I'm bemused about the stone comment - you never build Stonehenge with stone amongst human rivals, unless you start with it right next to your Settler. Even then you have to detour to Masonry minimum (and Wheel if it's not under your capital) before finishing it, which often isn't worth it that early.

Yeah, if you start with a Myst civ, and you have a good second city site to settle on stone that is already connected via a river, then sure!

[Lord Parkin]

Proposed response to Eagles & Condors. Got behind due to two 14 hour days at work, so I'd like to send it soon - if you have any feedback, please post it ASAP.

Dear OxySuttocratic Republic,

It’s good to hear from you again. We agree that an extended peace between our two nations makes sense given the layout of the land between us – war would only achieve mutually assured stagnation, which is certainly in neither of our interests. As such, we accept your proposal of a 60 turn NAP extension to T120, to be renegotiated on or before T110. The 5 tile settling clause would remain in place as agreed previously. As a show of good faith, we’d be happy to extend the NAP a further 30 turns to T150 if you wish (to be renegotiated on or before T140). Let us know what you think.

You mention you are in a position to gift land that would otherwise lie on your side of the 7 tile border – did you have any particular region in mind? As you may have noticed, the land to our immediate west is completely lacking in food resources. We would appreciate being able to found a settlement 6 tiles west from our capital, which would include the Wheat 8 tiles west from our capital (on the edge of our current border) - this would be our sole food resource in the area. Let us know if this would be okay.

We’d be glad to sign Open Borders after one of us discovers Writing, to remain in effect until our NAP expires. We can certainly help with the building of a road to connect our capitals, or arrange a connection via the coast if you prefer. We’d prefer a “trade only” agreement, such that Open Borders would grant us both additional income but not the passage of units – except with agreement in advance. What do you think?

We haven’t settled on a decision with the Great Lighthouse yet. However, if either of us do build it we agree that reviewing our open border arrangement would be fair. Let us know if you decide to construct it, and we’ll do likewise.

With regards to resource trades – we have our own sources of Cow, Sheep, Corn and Wheat, so unfortunately we won’t be interested in trading those resources. We’ll have spare Deer, Fish, Crab, and Silk to offer in the future though, so let us know if you might be interested in any of those. Oddly enough, we even have a spare source of Horses – so in the unlikely event that you should lose access to your own at some point, feel free to request ours.

Kind regards,
Team Orgynized

Happy to extend these guys the hand of friendship in return for their generous land split offer... especially since Margarita has been so unresponsive lately.

[Lord Parkin]

Turn 43

Exploration

We actually revealed some new tiles for the first time in a while, thanks to a border pop.

Demographics

Dinosaurs got a population growth. Care Bears finished a tech - the only ones to do so this turn - and Confucianism was founded. When we deselect our current tech, the golden coin thing that indicates an unfounded religion is now only present on Meditation. So Care Bears must have researched the more expensive Polytheism tech for their religion - an interesting choice. Especially as they have 4 cities and almost certain maintenance issues, why they wasted time researching an expensive tech that does nothing to advance their economy in the short term is a mystery to me. Could be headed for the Oracle I guess, though that still wouldn't help their immediate economic situation.

[Lord Parkin]

Edited the message slightly and sent it.

The turn rolled. Tried logging in while "Asterix" was in the game, but surprise surprise... I couldn't connect. Curious how Asterix, Margarita and Margarita_sub all have that same unusual issue. You'd almost think they weren't unique players.

I'm growing concerned that it's been nearly 2 weeks since we've heard a peep from the Ottoman team. There are three options I can see to explain the muteness - (1) they don't recognize the importance of diplo in multiplayer, (2) they can't be bothered putting the time in anymore, or (3) they're deliberately trying to avoid us for some reason. I don't buy the incompetence angle, so that leaves one of the other two options... neither of which is particularly enticing.

Arki, have you spoken to Maga at all in the last 2 weeks? She's clearly been visiting the forum.