[Spoiler] RB Pitboss #2 - Shaka of Rome

[Kyan]

Hello there!

LiPing you're clearly going hell for leather here at levels that are way beyond my own.

Best of luck.

let's hope you can perhaps shock some people here! (Though with Shaka or Rome thats almost a given hehe)

[LiPing]

Thanks for the wishes, and the reply, I was beginning to think I wasn't being interesting enough

I have decided to move the Settler. With that, first, I apologize to the mapmakers, because if I was making the map, I would have the intent to have the players plant on spot, and would be slightly disappointed if they did not. Secondly I would like to attempt to explain why (without resorting to a huge wall of numbers), because again, that's something I'd like to know if I was the mapmaker, but wouldn't be willing to ask a player directly because of the possibility of indirectly suggesting, with the map knowledge, that the spot was better than the player knew, until much later, where it may no longer be remembered. (and I don't expect them to reply to me here for the same reason as above)

Disclaimer: For everyone else watching at home, this is almost certainly going to involve some voodoo statistics, so don't assume what I'm saying is 'good'. Please test yourselves, and correct me, if I am wrong

My opportunity cost for moving is 2F 1H 9C. Because the starting spot is not adjacent to the 3F rice, it grows 1 turn slower, which is worth 1H. The rice will get farmed 1 turn faster, which is worth 2F, and saves a worker turn (possibly two, one moving back from the rice over the hill) which is (very very arguably) worth 5H, and I pull in a lot of forests, which are worth... lots of H. Freeing up the river will eventually give back the 9C (capital on river does no good) so I will 'catch up' the lost turn and feel that I am (eventually) winning in the long run with this move. Of course, now there's going to be Copper N, NE of the starting tile, and you can laugh at me.

And in other news, Broker and then Kodii settled, they have 7 and 6 land tiles, respectively.

[LiPing]

New Turn!

Rumia(warrior) goes NW, revealing...

A Plains Forest Deer and a... plains hill Gold. So... now what. Plant SW or move W and delay (again!) Well, back to the planning room. I have a feeling I'm going to be very unpopular, people have already been complaining about turn pace.

Krill, Olodune, other mapmakers, thank you for the existance of this lake that makes the rice viable, but... I don't suppose you could send me enough dirt to fill up the north half of it? (Not a complaint, just in case that's what you're thinking...)

Edit: I am stupid, it's also possible to reach that grassland tile N of the plains forest deer next turn (assuming forest doesn't grow over it at something like 0.4% odds) which looks like a way better site than 1W...

[Square Leg]

That would be a naughty forest!

[Jabah]

While it is technically possible to have deer, rice, gold and crab by founding N of Deer, it will not be coastal so the crabs will have to wait a bit before being having nets on them.

'Just SW' seems to be quite a nice place, you will have (irrigated) rice, deer, crabs and 2(lighthouse enhanced) lake. Being coastal and on fresh water.

Plenty of food, 6 forrests to chop (since you probably don't want to chop deer. Only negative point is only 2 hills for production (slavery or specialists economy - you choose) and of course gold of the fat cross.

[LiPing]

Thanks for chiming in. This is what I am thinking:

Just SW was my original plan when I first moved, but the N of deer spot is very tempting now, as the adjacent deer is almost as good as a move-to-plains-hill start.
Following my previous logic, I will 'gain' 5H by making the move (the first 5 turns of working the plains deer) and I will get back the commerce from the gold mine (eventually).
If I build a worker first from that spot, it'll be due in 12 turns, so ironically, I'll actually GAIN a turn from the starting spot (well, I'll have sacrificed 20 commerce for it, but yeah.)
Also, with the existence of the deer, the crab is going to be a non-issue in either spot now for the first ~50+ turns. It will cost 30 precious hammers to net that crab and the resulting 4/0/2 tile will be weaker than both the deer(4/2/0) and the rice (5/0/0), and approximately equivalent (or weaker, if I'm building a worker) to one of the mined grass hills, until I research sailing, and build a lighthouse. In fact, even the unimproved deer isn't much worse than the netted crab will be. I think it's a trap

... also it'll be more entertaining for you all if I move, and everyone else starts speculating about what I did, or what I'm doing, right?

Also, you might find this amusing:


And Sullla has settled, they have 8 land tiles.

[Square Leg]

Blue circle! clearly a supirior choice!

So is the plan - head to praets - eat someone for dinner?

[LiPing]

Well... my plan is to work out what to build and develop this yet-to-be-settled city, I haven't really gotten beyond that point yet

But if you mean straight away or close to straight away, like for example, Hunting-Agriculture-Bronze-Iron, then I think I can reliably say, no, I'm almost certain I won't do that. I don't think I really want to be sitting there for uh... what is it, about 18?+ turns researching it before other worker techs, I think it'd put me really behind and I'd at best probably end up causing mutually assured loss to the nearest neighbor, and myself, and that's not productive.

[LiPing]

I decided to move, and the Forest didn't grow, so I'm now waiting for 12 hours to tick over to move again and settle (I think this counts as neutral territory, so I can't do it immediately, and I don't really want to ask for clarification right now since that'll unnecessarily draw attention to myself from teams who may not be paying as much attention)

I also found an error I made earlier about creative and non-adjacent 3F tile because I was thinking of the wrong gamespeed border expansion, I've gone and corrected it now, and sorry to anyone who was misled by that.

So, in the meantime, I'm going to speculate about what's going to happen in the first few turns and what other people have done/might do.

From everyone's initial land area, I think everyone is on the coast, and everyone settled on the first turn, except Sullla. Several of the capitals have only 5 or 6 land tiles, but this didn't prompt any large movements inland, so I think it's quite likely that everyone has a seafood resource. Sullla perhaps had a starting shape similar to mine, but without the lake, and instead of an empty tile north, had a tile that would take the whole turn's movement, a hill or forest there. Or alternatively, also spotted something more appealing, and moved inland and planted next to a lake.

Mysticism Civs:
Broker/plako - Korea Phi/Spi
Speaker/Sulla - India Phi/Fin
Sunrise/Darrelljs/Regoarrarr - Byzantium Exp/Phi
Iamjohn/Kodii/Zeviz - Inca Exp/Org
DMOC/Nakor - Holy Roman Fin/Org

Hunting Civs:
Jowy/Yazilliclick - Greece Exp/Fin
Mortius - Zulu Agg/Fin
DMOC/Nakor - Holy Roman Fin/Org

Fishing Civs:
Jowy/Yazilliclick - Greece Exp/Fin

Holy Roman - I strongly expect them to chase a religion, and to build a warrior first. The reason for this is that we're on a relatively smaller map, and part of the reason I'd hate starting with a scout in that position is that I think it becomes hard to use, I feel that you're almost required to begin with warrior first in case you run into someone else's warrior with your scout early on and they charge off in the direction you came from.

Korea - I also strongly expect them to chase a religion since Broker seems to like Religions and Wonders a lot.

Inca/Byzantium - No idea. I'd tend to think not, but I personally evaluate early religion as not being worth it, so I'm biased. Of the two I think it's more likely the Incas would try because of having Agriculture over Wheel.
India - Because of the turn spent moving, I don't expect them to chase a religion, unless they gained an adjacent 2(3)c tile, in which case they could get Polytheism outright.

Zulu - I expect Warrior first.

Greece - I really really hate playing as Greece in random draw because of the starting techs, but they picked it deliberately... different preferences I guess . If they have a seafood, I suspect they will get tempted by it and go workboat first. Demographics show that the highest hammer yield currently is 3, if that is them, and that's what they're doing I think they'll be defenseless for say... hmm... 10 turns to build the boat, 3-4 turns to grow the city... (3-4H in the [edit]WARRIOR not worker[/edit])... 4 turns to finish it working a 2H tile or 3 turns not working the boat... say, 16 turns, so if I see a Greek scout early on (and especially if it comes from the west, since I've moved four squares in that direction anyway!), I think I'll try and run along the coast in the direction it came from and try to find them.

[Cyneheard]

The 12-hour rule is only if you're in a settling race, or think you might possibly be in a settling race. You don't need to wait, since you know how many people have settled. And, no, we did not give somebody 2 settlers. We weren't doing that much when we made the map. (If that is a spoiler, Krill, smite me where I stand.) In the future, unless you've defogged a 2-square radius around your target location, then, yeah, you should wait. But this time, it's not necessary.