RBers take on GW (from the Guild Hall Choices thread)

[Hawkmoon]

Since this is really quite a different topic from Guild Hall choices, I thought it deserved its own thread, so I copied KoP's comments (to Sirian's post) here, and will append my thoughts below:

for those who might be waiting for some RB reviews before committing to GW.

[about PvP problems with no level-matching of opponents]
There's no power-gaming advantage to be had. You can now (since the later beta events) create PvP only characters, they all start life at clvl 20.

As for casual low lvl PvP goes, the matching system has been improved, tho still not perfect. If one is serious about low lvl PvP there is at least the GvG option - Direct challenge. I am not sure how this works yet as I have not read much on it and never tried it myself. However, and that's a big however, low lvl PvP cannot be balanced under the current skills system, and, not worth the compromise having to adjust (the game system) everything else to balance low lvl PvP since these characters are short lived. I can think of one big loophole for low lvl PvP - there is no clvl req on skills.

The lack of skills prereq is a good thing the way this game plays. It means all the skills are "suppose to be" balanced, which means player skill matters.

[about "dogpiling" as the be-all and end-all of PvP]
I have read somewhere one of the highest ranking team during the last beta event was a team of 6-7 monks with only 1 or 2 real offensive characters, which definitely did not rely on dogpiling tactics. This is just one example of such different builds that I have heard of. Granted, one can still argue there are still some degree of dogpiling in every match, but it's only efficiency.

To simplify PvP battles into one single tactic, dogpiling, would be the same as saying Capture The Flag tournments boils down to whoever grab the flag first wins. The devil is in the detail. It is how you go about it that counts. There is no one strategy-tactic that works across the board, against all team builds. The builds need to be dynamic, able to change (preplanned or on the fly), the players have to gel as a team. This is people vs people, there is no monster AI to "exploit", and only so much is predictable. In the end, it still boils down to quick thinking, skill, knowledge of the game and team work.

[about soloing not being fun]
That much is true for most of us. Coop game should be eaiser and easier to find once everyone have a chance to run thru the game once, and get in sync with everyone else. The old RBers have a habit of building a variety of characters at different stages of the game so we can jump into almost any game in progress. too bad there are only 4 characters allowed per account ATM, there are ~20 active members in our guild, not a large number but enough to pick up the occasional coop game here and there without prearrangement.

I myself am enjoying a slow solo pace and not finding the FedEx training tiresome, yet. But that's just me, I want to see the game and enjoy the scenery while it is new. Most of the quests I have done so far are more or less since-you-are-going-there-anyway kind of thing. Still, you would have location markers (waypoints) to jump back and forth anyway.

[about the restriction to 8 skills at a time]
I think this is a commendable system, although I wish that would be upgraded to 10 or so skills. This system gives the game and characters more challenges and variety. You not only have dual classes, even those characters with the same professions and same masteries can play quite differently even driven by the same person. Well okay, we variant scums no need game dev to decide how to restrict ourselves but you have got to admit the limited number of skills you can bring along does impose more careful planning.

[about the skill timers making things "wait, wait, wait"]
No one hates the DII timer more than me, however, I find that it works for Guild Wars. Your statement is a bit misleading for those who have not played GW - only means you wait for the timer of the skill to recharge, not sitting idle. In Diablo terms (for the benefit of those not in GW)- One would cast a Firewall (Firewall recharges while enemies is roasting), then Dim Vision the monster so it has only 10% chance to hit you (DV lasts 3 to 10 seconds depending on slvl, and recharges in 3 secs). Meanwhile you need to keep an eye on the party especially if you have healing abilities. You may need to heal yourself or teammate since there is no healing potion in the game, or squeeze off a Fireball. The Firewall would be recharged at this time. If not, there are still a few more skill you can use... as oppose to just keep the button down and spam Frozen Orbs as in DII.

All said, I am still a noob with this game and I reserve to right to eat my words later

KoP

I haven't tried any PvP at all, other than the required match when you enter the Ascalon Academy to leave Pre-Searing. In that one match, my "team" was composed of myself, a warrior/monk and another warrior/monk, with two henchmen - a fighter and a mage. Our opponents had three "real" members and a mage henchman. The had a warrior, and archer, and a monk primary. They barely beat us, by one kill. It was a total free-for-all, it seemed - the henchmen are idiots, of course, and it was impossible to have any real strategy for the fight. I imagine that real, team PvP will be quite different. We really ought to try it sometime.

Regarding the only 8 skills at a time restriction, and the skill timers - I am selfish enough to want ALL the skills, at ALL times, NOW, dammit! I don't mind the skill timers - I think that it makes the game far more interesting. And I think it's a tribute to the GW designers that they came up with such a variety of skills that you want to use so many of them! My typical scheme with my warrior/monk my last gaming session was to cast Reversal of Fortune and Endure Pain while the enemy was closing, then to melee with Power Attack, wait for adrenaline to charge up, and as soon as it built up enough, use Sever Artery, wait a second or two for adrenaline to come back up, hit them with Gash, followed immediately by Wild Blow (doesn't require it to use, but discharges all your adrenaline, so important to use this right after an expensive adrenaline skill). Depending on how the fight was going, I might have to hit Orison of Healing, or refresh Endure Pain somewhere in the middle. When I wasn't using a particular skill, I was using normal attack, so, as KoP says, it's not like you're standing around doing nothing! And I find the constant use of different skills more interesting than just Click-and-Hold with Zeal, for instance. But I still wouldn't complain if the game designers upped the skill total to 10 or 12!

I played in most of the beta weekends, though not the April one, and I find the game much improved over the initial looks. I like the new maps - I actually have a clue where I am now, in Post-Searing! Enough of the landmarks are still there from Pre-Searing that I can find my way around, and I like the overall look. I like the collectors - it's a useful way to improve your equipment while you're waiting to amass enough crafting supplies. Like KoP, I'm not tired of the quests and missions, even the FedEx style ones - either the reward is tempting enough (tasty new skills!), or it's taking me someplace that I need to go anyway. I do want to hook up with fellow RBers for more coop gaming, though - the henchmen aren't quite up to snuff, and I haven't been that impressed yet with the general run of gamers.

Cheers,
Hawkmoon

[SoulEdge]

I do want to hook up with fellow RBers for more coop gaming, though - the henchmen aren't quite up to snuff, and I haven't been that impressed yet with the general run of gamers.

I pretty much only do the (main story line) missions with RBers, and when I can't find a group, I do the explorable areas and the quests that interest me. Quests that give skills as reward are the main priority, other side quests get done when I am exlporing the maps, collector quests almost never get done, since items in exchange can easily be obtained via drops or crafting.

Anyway, I have two characters thus far, and unless I am just going for a short gaming session, I am always interested in coop game. Just announce in guild chat and usually guildies will join.

For the early missions in post-Searing, I have a monk/mes about that level, and I can always get my ele/war (currently at Lion's Arch) to join as well, playing him as warrior, he has no attribute points allocated for his warrior secondary thus far.

[FoxBat]

The prodigal son returns, barely surviving a year of grad school... I have at least a little time to waste during the summer so I went and ordered GW recently because I miss my fellow variant scum, though it will probably be a week before I can actually start playing. This despite having some of Sirian's reservations concerning my PvE experiences in public events... there's a scary resemblance to dungeon siege i.e. candy covering with an absence of content, but then I spent all my time in public pick-up games, hopefully this is an illness the RBDers can cure somewhat. Another problem I had in the later events was that most missions can take 6 players, aside from this making many of the missions a touch too easy, the value of your individual player seems to decrease the more people are in the game, and you are forced in to more specialized and less intelligent roles... again a "tiny" clan like RBD is resistant to that, or we can always run naked if we have to.

If worse comes to worse though and this doesen't pan out for folks long-term, I'll probably stick around for the occasional PvP, hopefully I can then sniff out some group like StratForumRegs in Starcraft, the kinda place where people were so good they didn't bother with ranked play! (it's a very humiliating but educational experience to lose to those kinda guys, over and over and over...) Unlike the somewhat sluggish missions I like the pace of PvP and the important role a monk can play in it, although your win or loss depends alot on your team's skill, thus emphasizing the need to get together with a reliable guild rather than random pickups if you want to actually prove your skill and strategy.

So the moral of the story is... go waste $50 on a game you might not like, your fellow RBDers need you! Worse case scenario, you can sell your account on ebay and recoup most of the cost, without even having to send them a box or anything, thanks to the downloadable client... though it's true gold seems to be selling better than the game itself at the moment.