- their city#6 planted 1SW from rice, 1E from 'block India' sign, 6 tiles from our capital and 9 tiles from theirs.
- they are completing Oracle on T60, its up to flip now if LP compete
- they'll take MC if land Oracle, I'm assuming Pottery on T60 for them. (they have fishing already based on screenshot and improved fish in capital BFC). Really need C&D on them.
- Confu self spread into their capital
- There is a Stone between us. Like Yuufo called it "in a potentially disputed region". Very nice ambitions, guys. I'm sure city#6 was planted "in a potentially disputed region" as well. They played well, but we just can't allow them expand peacefully in our direction. I didn't mention my rage in chat and I'm sure Yuufo could describe me as 'soft' in diplo, but I don't think our team have a chance to win without some hard actions vs India. Early war isn't the only option here.
- CareBears stop expansion right now, according to Yuufo, and grow their cities a bit. Sadly, it means military units build.
Lets keep talking about antiLP coalition, but maybe we need another coalition in PB14 on our continent.
We need MM and SutOxy as allies on our side, no matter what. And LP (contact next turn) vs India or vise versa.
India and LP is a front runners in PB14. Talking about how we are lucky with neighbours. Yes, I know we are avoid AGG Rome, but still...
Worst thing in diplo, if we allow LP and CareBears ally. And they are will split our land. Lets think about best way to avoid it happens.
(October 12th, 2013, 12:27)TeddyKGB Wrote: Would you agree to change CM production to chariot right now?
Its not mean we will go to war with CareBears, but its more needed unit right now than Spear, imo.
Spear should protect us from LP later, if we plant aggressive toward him and take the Rice. LP could easy build chariots. And Yuufo stack with copper units.
Yes, changing the capital to a chariot is fine. We are #1 in power right now, so everyone else is on paper-thin military but we will eventually need it, I agree.
Right now I would like to see city #5 planted by the copper and the stone, so perhaps the grassland north of the lake? But it's going to be far from our other cities due to the lake in between.
Yes, we definitely need to get LP on our side ... we'll see what happens when we meet him. Do we want to start the diplomacy or let him do it? Remember, we should be the ones initiating the contact, so we can start the message.
What do you say about not opening borders with Care Bears if we can convince Asterik not to do so?
I'm drafting msg to Asterix right now. Its pretty open, I'm talking about war with India and breaking NAP.
But I think its ok, even if he copy paste this msg to CareBears (I doubt he will).
I'll login and change to chariot in next 15-20 min.
We'll reevaluate next turn after more chat wth Yuufo and contact with LP.
Do you have a draft msg to LP? Should we express our concern about India? Especially if they land Oracle and LP missed.
I'm assuming all our diplo exchange is confidential, from CareBears especially.
What if we both decide to war 2vs1 against India?
What is your timing to be ready to take their city#7 in case both our teams go full military mode right now?
What is combination of units you are ready to deploy? I'm assuming you have Horses and/or Copper by now.
Would you like to avoid early wars and let India keep expanding in peace? They has 7 cities already and probably will keep produce settlers.
Would you agree to close borders with them (once trade routes available) if we do the same? You should probably consider SutOxy as a trade partner, and our team should start working with LP. We could establish our trade route hard way: You-SutOxy-LP-Us.
Would you consider to break a NAP with India? They are planted aggressively toward you, so its a good reason, imo.
I don't want to ruin both our teams chances to win, but it could be too late after India will grab 75% of land and improve it in peace.
Again, I'm not sure early war is the best way for both of us, but India cant get any more deals from one of us right now.
Worst thing one of us could do, is making deals with India while other team war (military or economically) with them.
After some time, peaceful team will be consumed by monster India, imo. So, its not a way to win this game.
Our both geopolitical situation in PB14 dictates our teams should be long term ally. If you want NAP extension beyond Knights time, I'll agree.
So, we have to decide: are we both into fast military action against India or we both avoid warfare till construction or later, and try to reason or embargo with India.
Our both teams should stick together about India problem, imo. Our diplomacy toward them should be the same.
What you thinking about it?
Our team is in terrible position right now: India and LP as a neighbours, no FIN trait with 7/10 FIN teams on the map and slow start based on our techs.
Yours and ours score is looking good right now, but its inflated by CRE trait.
We are both got India (current runaway) as a neighbour.
You get SutOxy. While his score not impressive, they are EXP and could grow fast later in the game. Still, I think Carebears is much bigger threat for you right now.
-TeddyKGB, team EggHeads
Maybe I've said too much, but you can always say I was drunk and this msg is not our team policy.
Did chat with Yuufo a bit more.
We were talking about football (americans call it 'soccer') and politics mostly.
Nice guy, very intelligent, lets crush him.
Some more diplo.
From M&M.
Quote:Hi, I am on the go right now, so just very quick info: Yuufo settled city #3 on my doorstep and apparently thinks naming it "Friend" makes up for it .
I am convinced LP is definitely the biggest threat in this game, but short term Yuufo is out biggest problem - he still has as many cities as we both combined and he can completely stiffle our expansion. In his emails with us he was even more sincere, he said he would never accept a land deal, since it does not make sense for an IMP civ.
Of course, I keep our exchanges confidential, both from Care Bears and other civs - and anyways I am mostly in contact with you anyway.
As much as I hate it, I think you may be right, that 2 vs 1 relatively early war may be the only answer to India problem. Much more reasonable time for it would be for me turns 120-130, although I would have to give it some thought, so far I was hoping for peaceful expansion.
I do not believe Yuufo would be a threat comparable to LP in late game - LP is considered one of world best civ players, I think. But the problem is that we are Yuufo's neighbors and he can criple our expansion badly.
I will not break the NAP with India, although will also not extend it without consulting with you. I definitely view you as the most desirable ally for the whole duration of this game, I hope you share this view.
The interesting thing is that Oxy/suttree opened borders with you - they refused us saying that their agreement with LP prevents them from opening borders with other teams ...
Yours friend Asterix
Quote:Yuufo's new city
My reply to M&M.
Quote:Hi,
Thank you for new information and screenshot.
About India. Turn 120-130 DoW could be not good enough. Will you have your UU by then? I doubt it. We probably can have our UU by 120 but I doubt it either.
With all India's expansion and grab all riverside tile, I'm certanly not sure about our tech timing anymore.
India's expansion is (fucking) crazy. We had to decide something about it.
They told us, that their city#6 location was around 6(SIX!) tiles from our capital. And thats after we played friendly with them, even spend EP on you instead India. BTW, we were 2-3 turns away from seeing ur tech research, and we dont want to spent any more EP on you anyway.
With EP, it was mine (TKGB) mistake: we had some sort of talking with India about EP spending. And I thought we could get more from them via diplo if our team stick to that semi-deal. I was wrong. Sorry for spending all that EP on you. If you like to get our graphs, well provide.
Back to our decision about India, as I said, both our teams should be in or out.
There is no glory to deal with India and leave the other team fighting. It'll backfire on the team who avoid confrontation with India, I'm sure.
We are not willing to extend our NAP with them.
We are not willing to OB with them if you agree close borders with them right before India could profit from it. If they are OB with you and us, they'll get much needed commerce to get them out of the hole. SutOxy for you and LP for me seems like a better partners now.
Here's a revised version of your message. What do you think?
Quote:Hi Asterix,
This message is long, but please bear with us as we have a lot to say here. (And also, DMOC is contributing to this.)
To put it simply, we're proposing an alliance between the two of us. The rationale behind this is that we both share a neighbor who we feel is expanding too rapidly and encroaching on land that is closer to our capitals. As we are the only two teams that surround Team Care Bears, a coordinated effort between the two of us can do wonders to slow down the pace of the game's top civilization at the moment. In addition, this alliance would give both of us protection in case the other two teams (SutOxy, Orgynized) start working together on their own agendas.
Here is what we're proposing:
1. Neither of us extend our NAPs with Team Care Bears. This is an important part of our deal, since we need to keep Team Care Bears on their toes. I believe that ours ends on turn 75, while yours ends on turn 80. (If not, please correct me.)
2. Both of us exchange messages to each other that we send (or receive) from Team Care Bears, unless Care Bears makes it clear that they want confidentiality. (We should honor our agreements with teams.) For instance, if Care Bears asks us for an extended NAP, we'll decline and let you know that they've asked us.
3. Both of us also exchange our long-term domestic and diplomatic plans regularly. This way, we'll be able to more efficiently coordinate actions against Care Bears if needed.
Our last point brings up a number of hypothetical questions:
1. What if we both decide to war 2vs1 against Care Bears?
2. What is our timing to take their cities if both of us are ready to go full military mode now or in the future?
3. What is combination of units you are ready to deploy? I'm assuming you have Horses and/or Copper by now. Right now, we have horses hooked, and will hook up copper soon with city #5.
4. Would you like to avoid early wars and let India keep expanding in peace? They has 7 cities already and probably will keep producing settlers.
5. Would you agree to close borders with them (once trade routes available) if we do the same? You should probably consider SutOxy as a trade partner, and our team should start working with LP. We could establish our trade route hard way: You-SutOxy-LP-Us.
We think that now, it's best to avoid early war with Care Bears. Here's why:
1. We do not have a lot of military units to spare, and since we are #1 in power rating (turn 59), we assume the same holds for you.
2. We do not have a great economy at the moment, as we are only now beginning to work cottages. If we were to war, this would ruin our economic position relative to the other civilizations.
3. We would not be able to take many cities. Care Bears have had copper for a while, so they can easily whip spears in their central cities to counter our chariots. The gains of getting (or razing) some size 2 city doesn't seem worth the hassle of forming a long-term enemy who will still be in a strong position after losing just a few peripheral cities.
On the other hand, we can definitely do other things to slow Care Bears:
1. Not extending our NAPs (as mentioned earlier), to make them build more military.
2. Declining open borders with them.
3. Declining all resource deals (if we do have open borders)
The point about open borders should be taken with consideration, which is why we didn't propose it as part of our alliance. If it is true that SutOxy won't open borders with you, then we feel like this will hurt your team if you don't have open borders with either of your neighbors. We're also about to meet Orgynized, and if they prove to be picky about open borders too, this would also hurt us. We should make these kind of decisions together, as we would like to avoid a situation where one of us trades with Care Bears while the other wars with them. Still, I think it is in both of our interests not to have open borders, if we can get SutOxy and Orgynized on our side.
If you need help getting SutOxy to open borders, then we can try and talk with them, or talk with Orgynized, who we meet next turn.
So, we have to decide: are we both into fast military action against Care Bears or we both avoid warfare till construction or later, and try to reason or embargo with Care Bears?
Our team is in terrible position right now: Care Bears and Orgynized as a neighbours, no FIN trait with 7/10 FIN teams on the map and slow start based on our techs. Our score is looking good, but it's inflated by the creative trait.
I know this is a lot to absorb, but we have a lot of reasons to work together, so I hope it can work out. Please do not tell Care Bears about this message.
Sincerely,
-TeddyKGB and DMOC, team EggHeads
One of the things I'm getting annoyed at is when other teams keep saying that Lord Parkin is the biggest threat to win the game. Trust me, he's not. Don't let the reputation of players affect our decisions here --- let's see the actual results in the game. I didn't know Yuufo and Bisons before this game, but I think they're skilled players based on what I see in this game right now. We should not be worrying about Lord Parkin right now. It's Care Bears that are the top civilization right now.
First, I'm not thinking LP is a biggest treat to win. I hope EggHeads are.
Just try to put some fear into opponents. And I cant to talk with India about how they are a much bigger threat than LP, can I?
Diplo is clear now Us+MM+SutOxy+.?. vs runaway. Lets work that way. We need both MM and SutOxy either way, and we have nothing to share with them except our fears.
.![[Image: 188ad3839a2b.png]](http://s09.radikal.ru/i182/1310/30/188ad3839a2b.png)