[Spoilers] Fintourist and Old Harry have nothing to see here

[Fintourist]

Suttree does not have visibility on the tile E of cows. T91 we put 2 workers (who also road the tile), 3 bowmen and 1 axe there, T92 we road the tile N of our own plant and move our units NW of "balls". Let's bring the bowman that is currently at Endor towards south. Who knows what kind of a conflict this becomes.

[Old Harry]

If he's got one unpromoted axe in there our CI Melee axe would get 80%, if he's got two then a CI bowman gets 43%. If they are CI it's 75% & 38%. If he's got archers in there it'll be another matter, but I think this just might work...

I already moved the bowman exploring dtay, but the one overseeing the chops could certainly move.

I feel like a bully!

Edit: Before we do it though, is the original plant that much better?

[Fintourist]

Edit: Before we do it though, is the original plant that much better?

Well the main point of the original plant was to block suttree from settling those corn & rice resources and give us a hold on the "river valley". If he has too much defenders I prefer settling that northern desert hill or something else and we just have to come back later. I don't see that much value in a cramped city NW of the original site, but if we cancel our attack we can consider it again. I think we have a fair chance to be successful and should at least move in and see what defenders suttree has in the city. As evident from your calculations, that city won't have cultural defenses, is on the flat land and defenders probably won't have too much of fortify bonus. Consequently if there are only 1 or 2 defenders we get a fair shot at it..

[Old Harry]

And actually we get an out as well, on t92 we move an axe onto the forest, if we don't like our chances we offer peace straight away and Suttree assumes we're doing the enforced peace trick again. (Although he'll notice the road and axe if he doesn't accept straight away).

If the force in "balls" is small enough we can move the settler and a bowman onto the x? on t92 with an eye to settling after razing the other city t93... Only a one turn delay, but it assumes one bowman will be enough to hold the city, otherwise we use as many units as it takes and send the rest to Hastings and settle t94.

The settler is sitting in Endor right now. If we move him to Dunkirk this turn both the desert hill and original spot are still options. In fact we could move Merovech towards the desert hill rather than Dunkirk if that is a serious possibility.

I guess we should play tonight/tomorrow morning to maintain the turn split with Suttree.

Edit: I wonder where YuriMack just settled?

[Fintourist]

If the force in "balls" is small enough we can move the settler and a bowman onto the x? on t92 with an eye to settling after razing the other city t93... Only a one turn delay, but it assumes one bowman will be enough to hold the city, otherwise we use as many units as it takes and send the rest to Hastings and settle t94.

Probably we want to move in with 4 units even though there would be only 1 defender, because suttree will have 1 turn time to reinforce the city and he might have some zone defenders. However, the bowman from Gallipoli could reach "x?" on T93 if it starts travelling this turn. I think we should start moving it towards Dunkirk in order to maintain flexibility. The bowman close to Cannae can replace it as the defender. Yeah, this will delay getting our sentry net up, but having those extra units in the east is probably worth it. What do you think?

EDIT: Maybe we can use the one warrior in the area for checking the safety of that "x?"-hill on T92 before settler moves there (assuming we believe that we can raze that city)

The settler is sitting in Endor right now. If we move him to Dunkirk this turn both the desert hill and original spot are still options. In fact we could move Merovech towards the desert hill rather than Dunkirk if that is a serious possibility.

Hmm.. I guess road network is still the more flexible option. If our settling force fails and retreats it might still be able to guard the settler towards the desert hill from the south.

I guess we should play tonight/tomorrow morning to maintain the turn split with Suttree.

I don't think we need to pay attention to that too much yet. T92 will probably be the first turn when it will make any difference and the splits will be locked based on those actions. I would prefer to have the 2nd half of the timer, because that would allow us more time for discussion, but suttree plays always so late that I guess we just have to suck it and take the first half. In this case, where the city is so young that it can't whip, 1st half is probably tactically stronger anyways.

[Old Harry]

Turn 90

I've run through the micro for the turn. Note that Ichabod's work boat has two movement points, so could declare and move in. Our galley might be able to kill it if we want an enemy? The plan for bowman moves looks good and the x? on the northern peninsula makes a little shortcut which could be useful at some point. Move Lunch W-W next turn?


That axe could prove problematic, although both workers can finish their current tasks before he arrives. Lets hope he heads for dtay but I think we should switch Endor to an axe or a bowman this turn. I'd like Yossarian to carry on, map out dtays current borders and meet The Black Sword and anyone else he can find - there are still ten uncontacted civs out there and tech bonuses to think of. Merovech could move SW-SW for zone defence, I moved him SW already.


I moved the settler to Dunkirk. If we don't settle Hastings on t92 it might delay currency, although settling Isandlwana a turn earlier probably makes up the lost beakers easily. I think we want the settler near the original site when we hit Seville, with the option to move in t92 if cover is available. Are these signs what you were thinking? Should Dunkirk continue with the spear or make another axe instead? The hammers start to decay t94.


In the south I agree, the new bowman should go to Gallipoli and BrickAstley should head over to garrison Hastings, so I made those moves. The zone-defense warrior will be needed in Dunkirk for MP if it grows to size five, in the mean time there is no reason he can't hang around near the action. After BoP whips the settler how about growing it on a bowman or axe?


I think we're stuck with the current turn order - presumably Suttree is playing after YM even though they are at peace now and a three-way timer split would be annoying. I wonder if anyone will guess what we're up to? Actually Suttree is at 39/43 on EPs - should we put a turn into him to try and stop him seeing the spike?


Demos - max GNP is back in double digits - I wonder who completed a tech with 2 pre-requisites this turn? Lewger just got Code of Laws and revolted to Confucianism, so they might have been running a lot of wealth builds to get there?

I've ended turn - the only things to decide are the builds in Dunkirk and Endor and whether to put our EPs back on Suttree.

[Fintourist]

Quick reply:

• Lunch move sounds good!
  
• I'm fine with Yossarian doing what Yossarian does.
  
• Yes, those invasion-signs are what I was thinking! Do you have an alternative approach?
  
• Let's put 2 EPs on suttree, that should delay graphs a bit!
  
• I think Endor can continue with a spear, we can later put hammers into a bowman or axe if required. However, I'm fine with anything here.
  
• Can we finish an axe or a bowman in Dunkirk before the decay begins? We should have time, right? Our starting hypothesis is that suttree's military consists mainly of axes so those units sound better.
  
• I think we want some spears for our border cities so I'm sure we want to complete both of those spears at some point in any case
  
• BoP growing on bowman/axe sounds fine. Library would probably be the other option. Or do we want a 2nd galley. Hmm.. Maybe even WB. If our attack fails, we could use the settler from the capital for the desert hill site close to slowcheetah. In that case we need a quick WB. Well, let's not start a WB. We whip one if required.
  
• I think we'll get EOT94 Currency no matter what we do. Do you think that we still might have a chance to get it eot93? (which would be awesome)
  

[TheHumanHydra]

In the demogame (this can't be a spoiler anymore), I found throwing everything at an offending city worked well, if barely. So don't hold back. I would move an archer as the fake-scout unit as it's less threatening if he sees it; he might just think we wanted visibility on the centre tile. I'm glad to see lots of military builds, though I wish they were axes, or better, chariots, rather than spears. Can we build chariots? Can we whip one and get it there fast - even if a second wave? (You said you thought his military was all axes ...) [Wait - looks like no horses. Any chance of trades?] Anyway, this is interesting; looking forward to seeing how it plays out. Even if we find he's defended well - I guess we know our medieval war target!

Can you post zoomed-out overview shots of the main landmass?

Edit: I wouldn't kill Ichy's workboat. Make friends. We already have an enemy ...

[Old Harry]

Logged in to change the builds, dtay offered a map trade, I said no, but given how unlikely we are to butt heads with him it might not be a bad idea to accept?

I changed Dunkirk to an axe as I think we have plenty of bowmen, I'm not sure if we'll lose one of the spear hammers (not sure exactly which turn decay sets in) but we can whip the axe if we want it earlier too.

I like that invasion approach, and unless we're presented with an empty city you're right we should play it safe and use all four units.

I don't think 2 eps on Suttree will stop him getting our graphs - 43/45 will probably be over the threshold, while 43/47 might not be - or do you know something I don't? I can't find an article explaining the ratios, although I'm sure I saw one once. Anyway he's set to get 4 this turn, then we can go back to Slow next turn.

Overview map for THH - sorry about all the signs, trying to keep an eye on m_h and YM - is that what you're after? There is a lot of fog to the NE so there could be competition for the river valley from there, but Suttree is our main opponent in that area. We haven't researched animal husbandry yet, so we may have horses, but can't recognise them.

[Fintourist]

Logged in to change the builds, dtay offered a map trade, I said no, but given how unlikely we are to butt heads with him it might not be a bad idea to accept?

Yeah, I guess it would not be a terrible idea. However, it's also not a terrible idea to wait until we have solved this suttree issue and hopefully have a grasp on the "river valley".

I don't think 2 eps on Suttree will stop him getting our graphs - 43/45 will probably be over the threshold, while 43/47 might not be - or do you know something I don't? I can't find an article explaining the ratios, although I'm sure I saw one once. Anyway he's set to get 4 this turn, then we can go back to Slow next turn.

I'm fine with putting 4 EP's on Suttree! Since we actually have some soldier points currently, not letting suttree get our graphs until T92 is a solid idea. I don't have more info than you - I believe it's a close case whether 43/45 would be enough.

We haven't researched animal husbandry yet, so we may have horses, but can't recognise them.

Apart from the early tech mechanics confusion, not getting AH before Writing is possibly the biggest we have done so far. Consequently, you are Hydra raising a very important issue. I think we will get AH after Calendar.

If suttree really has only axes, chariots would be awesome of course. However, already 1 spear would make them practically useless (bad investment) in the attack. I'm kind of happy that we have bowmen. Because of their cheapness they are not totally terrible when attacking, and as city defenders they are well worth their cost. If we manage to raze suttree's city and get 2 bowmen + settler on the jungle hill we are targeting, it will be extremely difficult/costly for suttree to return us the favor.