Epic 48- The Absent-Minded Professor - Reports and Discussion

[Sullla]

Rather than reply to each report individually, I'm grouping all of my responses together here. That makes things easier for me to type, hopefully it will also make them easier for you to read.

Kylearan - Your first game was certainly impressive with a launch date that looks to be almost a century earlier than anyone else. Of course, you did get not one but TWO settlers before 2500BC in that game! And I thought my luck was good! You did a great job to fight off those early aggression wars, but again had the luck that the Spanish didn't sign in any additional AIs against you. That seems to be a pure dice roll, from what I've been able to observe.

Anyone who can win a game using automated workers and the city governors is doing an outstanding job. I'm kind of surprised you were able to do as well as you did in that game. You get the "Cyrene" award for this one!

Rik - Just a head's up for future reports, it might be helpful to focus a bit less on diplomacy and a bit more on your own civ's development. It's great that we can see your interactions with the AI civs, but I would have liked to heard a bit more about what your own civ was building, where your cities were located, etc. What was the reasoning for putting the Forbidden Palace in Ugarit? I was just wondering if you considered putting it further to the west to make that area more productive the way I did. Sorry you found the game boring, but at least there was a little action from the other AI civs. The question you have to ask yourself is whether or not you REALLY would have wanted to play a game along my lines!

LK - I don't suppose you have any pictures from your game to let us know what your civ looked like (?) It looks like the AI civs spent a lot more time fighting one another and ended up much weaker in your game from their constant infighting. I also think it's interesting how you and microbe interpreted the "no aggression" rule to allow for the destruction half of Spain! Maybe Sirian should have been a bit more clear on that one.

cygnus - Believe me, I know the feeling of coming off of a long civ layoff and having to jump right back into things! It's interesting how you and several other players also got a settler from that hut, but not on the turn that I did. Oh, and Harran's location is hilarious!

(Side Tangent) Quick Start Challenge, hmm? You know, when cracker first started setting that aspect of the GOTM, he asked if I wanted to help share the responsibility of running it. I had to respectfully tell him no thanks; I fully recognize the importance of the start of the game, but I just don't believe that Civ3 can be distilled down into a mathematical formula that gives points for certain "right" behavior. Again, I'm not trying to insinuate anything against you here, just going off on an unrelated side tangent. Very tough luck on that Great Lighthouse build, I was very close to having that happen to me! Embassy investigations are definitely your friend in wonder races (not that you could investigate the Zulu capital at that time). You seemed to be lucky on avoiding a general war too. Thanks for sharing a well-played game with us.

microbe - That city you found in a hut turned out to be in a great location! Just missed being on the river, but almost perfect otherwise. I'm a little curious as to why you pursued the Great Library (instead of, say, the Pyramids) knowing how incompetent the Monarch AIs are. Or perhaps you've been playing too much Deity and over-estimated their capabilities? Umm, and about that aggression... I understand you were angry with France and Spain, but I don't think that's really what Sirian had in mind with the rule! It's interesting to see how different people interpreted that rule. I took it to mean "fight off enemies in your territory, but don't invade other civs", but of course that was not explicitly stated. Just like what I tell my undergraduate students, clarity is very important.

Urugharakh - I sincerely hope you got at least one settler in a hut, or else you played an unbelievable game, even for Monarch. I don't suppose we could get any more details?

Sirian - I'm not sure if the resource requirements for the spaceship have changed in Conquests, but I definitely checked the Civilopedia before going to war over rubber. (And this may not be the best place for it, but you have my best wishes for the continued health of your family.)

Dunedine - Having lost a savegame myself (in Epic 9, probably the game I most regret out of all the ones I played), I know the feeling. I don't know why your pictures aren't showing up, but I hope you can get them working.

bed_head7 - I'll be waiting to read your report when you finish it.

One or two final comments. My game was much more peaceful amongst the AIs than in any other one I read. They were advancing up the tech tree at a MUCH faster rate than in a lot of the other games. This seems to be a common theme to my games - even in this one where I couldn't interact with the other AIs! Sirian has made the same observation in one of his games, and I'll make it here myself: SOMETHING in the way I play seems to encourage rapid AI tech progress. It certainly didn't help in that the endgame turned into me versus the rest of the world. microbe is the only other person that seemed to happen to. I wonder why that is?

Thanks for some nice reports everyone.

[microbe]

I'm a little curious as to why you pursued the Great Library

I honestly don't know (or remember). I completed the game one month ago and logged the turns as raw facts, and then started to write it up with my thoughts when the date was due. The reason is that I don't like spending time formatting the turn logs only so that I have to do it again when it's submitted (I use CFC, which I can't do before the due date). So the final result is often that I don't remember what I was thinking when I'm writing the reports! That's a drawback when a game opens for too long.

But in the hindsight, I never thought of going for Pyramids, or any wonders in particular as THE PLAN. I went for Great Library maybe because I thought it would be cool to get the techs without trading this way instead of having to self-research all the way to space launch. The saved gold certainly helped, and the AIs were not that slow.

In any case, I didn't put too much thought into the strategy, thinking it would be a relaxed game..

[Urugharakh]

Urugharakh - I sincerely hope you got at least one settler in a hut, or else you played an unbelievable game, even for Monarch. I don't suppose we could get any more details?

I got one settler in ~3000 BC out of the western hut and founded my second city near the silks. There I used 2 forest chops for a fast temple and then started the colossus for an early golden age under republic. I build lots of workers early on, out of my capital with their huge food bonus and was ready to use all those hills for production once I switched to an extremely early republic, where I was very lucky drawing only 2 turns anarchy. I think many workers and comparatively few early game settlers where the key. A few turns after rebublic I entered my golden age and fully improved hills earned pyramids in my huge capital without problem, though it might have been close, as the Oracle was taken by the cascade next turn.

I managed to boxed my AIs in their home territory. I blocked the choke in the southwest before they got a settler past it and I blocked their advance through my territory without problem using my initial exploring scouts. So even with a slow landgrab I got a huge territory. But I might have been lucky with the AI wars. Some time I remember spain and france fought about something, but I've no idea, how long this war lasted.

[LKendter]

LK - I don't suppose you have any pictures from your game to let us know what your civ looked like (?) It looks like the AI civs spent a lot more time fighting one another and ended up much weaker in your game from their constant infighting. I also think it's interesting how you and microbe interpreted the "no aggression" rule to allow for the destruction half of Spain! Maybe Sirian should have been a bit more clear on that one.

Well if you can point me to a good place to store .jpg files I can give a couple.

As for the no agression comment I thought it was meant that WE can never start a war!

[bed_head7]

Okay, if you are interested, the write up is finished and posted here . I think there are probably some missing details, so if there is something that anyone is curious about, just ask. The only thing I actually logged while playing was trades and any dates I cited in the write up. So most everything was from memory. Next time (I'm hoping there is a next time) I'll try harder to keep an organized log, and also to take more screenshots.

[Ginger_Ale]

Sorry I'm a bit late, feel free not to count this, I've been busy.

edit: Nevermind, reports are due today! Seems I made it in time - the forum clock is one day ahead.

Scout moved 2 NW to the hill, and reveals two sugars. Good for a second city. I see two incenses in the fog of war to the 2 E and E - SE. Worker to grassland wheat.

Let's check out our terrain for a possible settler factory:
Irrigated Grassland Wheat, Irrigated Floodplain, Irrigated Floodplain, Mined Hill, and Mined BG at size 5 will give us 5 fpt and 5 spt. There aren't enough shields by the starting location for a settler factory.

Settle on place, order up 2 scouts. Science @ Writing at minimum.

We pop Ceremonial Burial from a hut in 3550 BC. When our borders expand in the interturn, we get a conscript warrior from the nearby hut. We send him to Hattusas to lecture the citizens on the ways of military policing.

3450 BC was an important year. We popped Tarsus in the north, in a pretty good location. Coastal, with 2 BGs and a cow. We also meet the Spanish. We are in a hurry, and move on with our life. We don't even stop and say hi.

In 3400 BC, we pop another hut and get another warrior. 2 early, cheap MPs.

In 3050 BC, we pop Warrior Code.

In 3000 BC, we pop Bronze Working. We also spot pink borders and learn of the existence of the French.

Joan offers Masonry for Warrior Code and 50 gold. It's almost definately a rip off, but I'm a hurry, so I say yes.



In 2800 BC, we pop The Wheel from a hut.

In 2670 BC, we pop Mysticism from a hut. We get a nice, corrupt city named Ugarit in the middle of the Southwestern jungle. It allows us 1 more beaker of science to learn.

In 1990 BC, I get the Philo gambit done. Philo -> Lit. Now I'll go after CoL, and build some Libraries for some good research power after I keep expanding.

In 1750 BC, I see barbarian horsemen. The AIs must know Horseback Riding.

We get past a 2 tile chokepoint in the south, and come out right next to a goody hut. Alas, there is a barbarian next to me that will kill me in the interturn.

In 1475 BC, see a barb galley. AIs have Map Making.

Stats for 1000 BC:
13 Cities
1 Settler
13 Workers
8 Warriors
2 Spearman
2 Contacts
1 Library (1 more in 2 turns)
2 Luxuries
7 Techs Left Needed Until MA
1 Turn from a Revolution



Not too bad for self research.

Both my opponents are still in AA, according to city graphic.

Gain Republic, and in the interturn, revolt. We draw 6 turns. Not too bad, considering our size...



We enter a Republic in 850 BC. We only pay 14 gpt in unit costs, and that will be less and less as our cities grow to size 7 and beyond.

In 690 BC, France contacts me and offers this deal. I say yes. I'm in a hurry, but this isn't a ripoff. France is WAY behind me.



For some time now, a French warrior had been going through my lands. It seems as if he was going after my empty cities (which I had a lot of), so I had 15 spt Hattusas produce Three-Man Chariots to keep tabs on him. It was a game of cat and mouse, but 3+ 2 move units with roads will beat a 1 move unit all day.

He finally went up north to the peninsula and starting attacking barbarians...

In 410 BC, I was able to 4-turn research Currency. Perhaps the AI had it, which was why it was so low, as they had had Mathematics for so long. But even so, it's the only tech between me and the MA, and 4 turns is what I want. Enter the MA in 350 BC. We can research Mono or Eng in 9 turns @ -9 gpt or Feudalism in 8 @ -9 gpt. Not too bad, considering I still have lots of room to expand.

One of my exploring galleys sees coast - but it's 4 tiles away! Since suicide galleys are a 'dastardly tactic', I decide I will wait until caravels to explore. The galleys heads farther south of my continent... Meanwhile, in order to research faster, I belined right to Education. Of coruse, I can't prebuild/swap builds, so I'll have to time builds to finsh right around when I get Education, so I can start Universities right away.

In 150 AD, I researched Education and started research on Astronomy in 8 turns at 60% science without Universities. I could research it in 5 turns at 100% science, but I'd have no gold left (I'd be negative), and I need the luxury tax...

Soon, a massive barbarian uprising occurs by my city claiming my second source of iron in 250 AD. Of course, Sirian, we can't bring our wheeled Three Man Chariots up north to fend them off until I get a road, so they'll be up there eventually (I have a worker, with soon to be another up there) building roads across the mountain. I lost a total of 124 gold in the interturn due to ransacking.



The students must love my teaching, even if they don't have a university to learn from!

When I researched Astronomy, I started a glorious project in my capital. Copernicus's Observatory - it was designed to help my teachers teach better. My capital already had a temple, market, library, cathedral, barracks, and university, so I maxed it's shield per turn at 20, and started the wonder. I have almost a definite shot at getting it.

In the interturn of 360 AD, a purple galley appears - but it sinks to barbs. Alas, they didn't make contact...however, the barbarian-killing Three-Man Chariots from the newly built mountain road make contact! It's the Iroquois civilization.. Judging by their unit, a spearman, I'm guessing they don't have Feudalism, or at least not many. They were the ones who build TGL, so I better send a galley up that way and see if I can find their route.

This same turn, an exploring galley ventures one tile away from sea tile and sees a yellow border and goes forward to see if they'll propose a trade. We survive, and F3 tells us it's the Zulus.

The Iroquois contact me and offer this trade:



I get to see how backwards they are. I say no, and continue my research in the lab.

Then, in 440 AD, I get this: French War. I am totally unprepared.



According to F3, we are weak vs. the French. I only have a few builds completing in the next 10 turns, and many of them aren't in high spt cities. My main city is gone, and a flood of french units is heading my way - no energy left to play the game.



Conclusion: Fun variant, fun game. I got too caught up building infrastructure that I didn't focus on military. My capital should've spewed out 2-turn pikes to fill the small gap between the mountains between me and France. Thanks for the game, Sirian.

[Flint]

Well I have been really busy and I no way have time to write up a report right now for RBciv epic 48, which I did complete on time . A quick summary; I won despite not expanding enough to capture the uranium to the north of my continent and I fought a very short war with France at the end of the game to grab that vital resource and complete the parts that needed it. Then it was victory in 1890AD. Probably pretty late game-wise, but it took me only 13hrs 40mins and 2secs RL wise, which is pretty quick I think. This was my first space race victory ever (wow it gets a movie!) which is kinda sad considering I believe myself to be experienced. I had basically no micromanagement ever, no military to speak of until like 6 turns before the end of the game. I(I fought a France with modern armor using Tow infantry and Radar arty) and in case I didnt mention it I only had 13 cities and failed to get uranium or oil. (I did get that rubber though). Thank goodness for monarch. Maybe becuse there was no interaction with the AI I played my most careless game of recent times...yet still won. Parts were fun, and parts were not, but at least the game was quick. I am sorry for this pathetic excuse to turn something in before the deadline, but I will hopefully complete a real report sometime in the future. I also figured out that on the modern age tech tree everything Sid says is mixed up(ie: the cursor is over robotics and Sid is talking about the benefits of the Radio or some other wrong advance). And finally this was my first wholly played game of C3C and its not so bad. Refreshing idea though Sirian! Thanx for all the help getting started Griselda, Ginger Ale, and Sulla! .

[Mach]

Hey everyone. I'm new here, so let me introduce myself. I've been playing civ since December when a buddy of mine introduced me to it. I've never been a gamer -- I played a little Warcraft II in college about 10 years ago, and that's it until now. Obviously I've been having a blast, otherwise I wouldn't be here, so even though I've built myself into an emperor/demi-god player, really I'm quite the rookie.

So if I make the occasional faux pas, either in my game or in my write-up, please forgive.

Anyway, you can find my epic result here .

Comment how you will, I don't take offense to anything, I'm just here to learn.

Thanks again to Sirian for sponsoring; if there's another epic, I'm in.

[Kylearan]

Hi,

nice game; too bad you found it so boring. I liked your culture war over the rubber resource; definately the most interesting way to get it compared to the wars others had to fight...

I had to laugh when I saw the picture with all the fortified *warriors* in all the fortresses in modern times. I'm not sure why you've constructed those?

-Kylearan

[Kylearan]

Hi,

nice to see another old-timer besides me still playing from time to time.

Very good read, as always, especially the description and execution of THE PLAN - you're right, situations like this are definately Civ at its best.

Amazing that you had to fight so many wars; and amazing that even on Monarch, sometimes the situation threatens to get out of control. Too bad the AIs are too stupid to make something out of it.


By the way, your reports still suffer from the same HTML mistake I pointed out to you in the times of your very first Epic report, way back when. You have to put a ";" behind each "nbsp" - here's a screenshot how my browser (firefox) displays your pages:



The headlines of your chapters suffer from the same problem. If your editor supports it, you might consider doing a site-wide search & replace.

-Kylearan