RB PBEM #1 - Mehmed (SPOILERS!)

[Dreylin]

I noticed that mh has received both Chemistry and Steel in the last couple of turns, so I send him a quick ping:

mh,

Hope the cold is getting better.

Have you had any further thoughts about taking part in the conflict against athlete? I see that you can now field Cannons, I guess that sooooo has been feeling particularly generous lately....

Dreylin.

[Dreylin]

t125 - Still no further word back from mh; I have to say that's making me mighty suspicious.

Optics; and traded to Ruff.

Going to need Corporation to get Assembly Line; I set research to Economics as the prevailing tide suggests that I won't be getting it from athlete. @0% though, so only 37t.

Odd, a look at the logs and there's no counter-attack.

Oh:



I guess athlete's thrown in the towel at Kufah then.



Review his remaining troop positions; OK, there's the Cannon and a Drafted Musket moving between Mecca and Medina. And there's the Musket that's strangely standing in the open field rather than accumulating fortification bonuses in Medina. Hmmmm, I could have sworn there were 7Cuirassiers in that stack ... <checks previous turn> ... yep, definitely 7.

There's a Cuirassier in Mecca; I'd jumped to the conclusion that it was a new one, but maybe 1t after a Cannon build is a bit soon for another unit. I wonder why it's been called back West? There's a possibiliy that it could circle SW through the Jungle and strike at Kufah from the West, so I'll have to keep any Workers in the region under guard.

Kufah is captured. Comes with Granary intact, 4Pop & 5t of resistance. Oh, and 81g of pillaging.

Injured units move in to heal, leaving 2Janns, a Rifle & a Cavalry to take the tile 1N of Kufah. So let's have a look at the region:



That un-roaded Jungle hill is very important; it means that with Kufah and the tile 1N occupied, any attack has to be launched across the river making it an unappetising prospect. Further, I can advance onto the Windmilled hill 2N1W of Kufah to completely secure the approaches.

Some juggling of the forces approaching Medina to ensure that each stack has sufficient protection:

2E,1N: 3Cannon, Cat, 6Janns & Cuirassier
3E: Rifle, 3Janns, Cav, GG HA & GA
4E,1S: 2Cannon, Rifle, 2Janns

Most reinforcements are moving to join the Northern stack, however there is an additional Cannon & Rifle moving towards Kufah.

Bursa - Cannon, Samsun - Cannon, Sarmatian - Drydock, Izmir - Conf Missionary. No Drafting this turn as War is going well and need to let the anger start to wear off.

athlete has finally discovered Rifling, but currently has little gold for upgrades ... OTOH, sooooo has much gold he could supply

Also worth noting is that I have sufficient EPs against athlete that I can support a revolt in Medina. So if the opportunity presents itself, I may be able to make a lightning attack without having to bombard the defenses away.

I could also use at least one Spy keeping an eye on mh's land immediately behind Vienna - to ensure that no funny business is underway.

[Dreylin]

Word back from mh:

Hi Dreylin,
yes, I am better. Thanks.
I decided to rather pass on your offer to help forcefully take Medina.
I can't turn on athlete now after claiming the moral high ground earlier.
Currently, I am still thinking about ways to peacefully save Medina and its Buddhist populations from your bullets and cannonballs.
This should give me Medina with good long term potential (after all it is still swamped by culture from the other athlete cities).
And as far as your conflict with athlete goes, it is more or less neutral. You save yourself a few turns siegeing and healing and athlete has one less spot to defend.

But in the end, Medina is not that good a price to hinge my game on. As I said, it will take a while, before the BFC will be under its control again.
And you have an Artist around, that I assume is intended for bombing, putting again cultural pressure onto the BFC of Medina.
I am actually surprised you did not hold onto Damascus.

Regards
mh

I'm not entirely sure what he's getting at here with the talk about "peacefully sav(ing) Medina", but it sounds like he may be talking to athlete about a pre-emptive transfer of ownership. I don't think I like the sound of that, since my army is now fully committed to the assault, and to march up to the walls and suddenly find it in mh's control would not make me happy.

I also note that he's completely failed to respond to my nudge about receiving Chemistry & Steel from sooooo; actually, there seems to be a pattern with mh's diplomacy that he just fails to respond to things he doesn't want to talk about. It is certainly making me trust him less as our communications progress.

mh,

I'm not entirely sure, but it sounds like you may be negotiating with athlete for a peaceful transfer of ownership of Medina to yourself. Your argument that it is neutral for me to not have to attack Medina may have been true immediately after the fall of Damascus, however my Northern Army is now fully committed to the attack on Medina. With many turns already invested in marching to the walls, it would be a slap to my face if I discovered the banners were a different colour upon my arrival.

Once I have taken the city I can see that it will be pressed by your culture, so would be prepared to discuss the possibility of trading it to you. As you note though, I do have my Great Arist along; I've not been very sure what to do with him, but maybe trying to carve out a space around Medina might be the right thing to do.

As for Damscus, I just wasn't in a position to defend the city after the garrison had been eliminated. Besides, it only came with a couple of buildings and a pretty small and angry population, so overall it's just better for me to replace it when the opportunity arises.


I would also like to return to the matter of the trade embargo which I hinted at in my previous message. The precise letter of our peace agreement said that you would not "gift techs to athlete or sooooo" - which was later ammended to "trade" - that does appear to leave open as perfectly allowable for you to receive techs for free from both parties (I note that you received Rifling this turn). However, I would like to draw attention to these two statements you made during our negotiations:

Also, should I not come to any tech agreements with you or Ruff, I will need to be able to tech trade with other eventually.

Say, I will keep a more neutral stance and decide to tech something everybody is leaving aside for no, like Constitution. Obviously, I want to be able to trade it around for the long list of techs I am missing.

Now it's funny, but I think that it may be very difficult for Ruff and I to negotiate trade agreements with you if you just happen to have already acquired as gifts the very techs we may be able to offer in trade. While it may not violate the letter, to my mind your acceptance of these tech gifts does violate what I thought was the spirit of our agreement.

I guess that I will be just a bit more sceptical of your itentions in future, and if we do sign any further agreements I will have to pay a lot more attention to the actual wording used.

Regards,

Dreylin II.

I strongly considered adding some variation of the following sentence "Infact, I would consider it a fairly aggressive move on you part." to the end of the first paragraph to spell out that I would consider it to endanger the sttus of our NAP, however onreading the rest of the e-mail I think the tone was enough without the explicit threat.

[Dreylin]

t126 - Note from Ruff requesting cash; I send straight away to avoid the chance of forgetting again!

Konya: Cavalry - Spy. (to scout mh)
Istanbul: Cavalry - Bank.
Diyarbakir: Cavalry - Settler. (after losing the island spot to mh, and the letter I just sent, I think it's probably wise for me to plan to secure the Damascus area sooner rather than later.)

Review of opposing forces:

Medina: Longbow, Rifle, Cuirassier (I believe the Rifle is the Musket that accompanied the Cannon which has been promoted)

Baghdad: 2Musket(i), Longbow(i), Cannon & GG Cav - looks like they will be joined next turn by the random Musket from the hill.

4x Cuirassiers remain on their staging tile between the two cities.

It seems that the Cuirassier in Mecca maybe being used for MP duty. The Maceman from Najran is on it's way there, probably to take over.

My Spy runs around Mecca to confirm there's nothing hiding in the fog, so it looks like no new units this turn.

Northern stacks advance, and I slip a pair of Cavalry through Vienna to join to join with the group 1t away from reaching the walls. Technically this may violate the ROP clause of the peace agreement with mh, however he's skirting technicalities right now, so I don't feel very bad about it.

In the South, my advance stack secures the crucial hill tile between Kufah & Baghdad. The remaining troops are healing in Kufah.

I start to gather some of my reserve forces in Bursa; this helps with the happiness issue, but also will provide a defense if mh is planning anything.

Draft: Diyarbakir

[Dreylin]

More from mh:

Hi,
yes, I am indeed figuring out whether athlete wants to cede Medina to me.
Your comment about it not longer be a neutral decision for you is not really valid, as you will have free sped up passage through, what is then, tiles under my cultural influence and you save turns bombarding and healing.

As for the techs:
I am a bit disappointed you see me acquiring useful techs as not being in the spirit of the agreement.
As you well stated I had nothing and still have nothing to offer to you and Ruff in terms of techs.
The techs you suggested I research, Compass and Optics, were already around and themselves not of much use to me.
And I doubt I would have gotten lots of expensive techs out of it.
So I am focussing on a tech that is useful to me and has good trading value. Constitution at the moment.
If techs are offered to me as gifts or for good terms, I am not going to turn that down. Who would?
In a few turns you will have destroyed athlete and I will find myself next to a huge modern veteran army.
I am paranoid enough to happily accept Steel and Rifling in that situation.

Furthermore, and that is also to 50% my fault of course, I have not talked to Ruff since July.

Also, as you know, Rifling is not the end of the tech tree in this game and no doubt Ruff and yourself will have new techs out soon.
I hope I will be back on the tech track by that time to offer you and Ruff unique techs in a fair trade then.

Anyway, to get back to more urgent and more constructive matters.
I am happy to gift to you Constitution once I got it, should athlete agree to cede Medina to me and you are set to attack it regardless of the color of the flag.

Regards
mh

With a short addendum

Just checked the game.
Isn't Medina exactly on your way to Mecca?
How would your northern army have marched to Mecca if not via the course it is taking now?
mh

Well his arguments about the techs are all well and good, but he has made virtually no effort to get closer cooperation with Ruff and I, and the pattern of behavior suggests that he's never really intended to switch alliances.

mh,

If Medina were a non-issue, I would have taken the Northern army SW from Damascus to rendezvous with the Southern army at the gates of Baghdad, then pushed the entire force through to Mecca. That would have exposed it to only a single turn on flatland, as opposed to the two between Medina & Mecca.

You owning the city actually benefits my advance very little since the tiles South of Medina will remain in athlete's control and I will still have to slog across the two open flatland tiles to reach the hills of Mecca. Also, many of my units are on un-roaded tiles right now, so cultural ownership is a non-issue. As it is, there is good reason for me to want athlete to continue to have to defend the city, thus keeping his forces split defending multiple fronts.

What is your ETA on Constitution? I may be willing to trade the city for the tech once you have it in hand, but a speculative trade with no firm date for fulfillment is really not in my interests.


As for the techs you've received; well it's a matter of perception, isn't it? My reading of the spirit of our agreement was that you would move away from your previous alliances towards a closer cooperation with myself and Ruff, but if that did not prove possible you would be free to make your way unfettered. I'll quote you again from your original peace proposal:

There is of course the possibility of you boosting my civ back on track and me becoming a valuable minor partner to your civ. But that's probably just me, up in dream land.

You mention receiving techs for "good terms", so I'm guessing that sooooo offered you tech in exchange for your spare Iron. I note that when we discussed the potential for Ruff and I to retain access to your Iron, the option of trading it for technology was never mentioned....

And so the perception deepens that rather than attempting to change alliances, you have reverted straight back to your old allegiances without even attempting closer cooperation with Ruff and myself.

Regards,

Dreylin II.

[novice]

To use a poker analogy, you're really playing your big stack now. This kind of diplomacy wouldn't fly with more equal power settings.

Good game so far!

[Dreylin]

To use a poker analogy, you're really playing your big stack now. This kind of diplomacy wouldn't fly with more equal power settings.

Good game so far!

Well mh has spent the last 15t spewing out new cities like nobody's business - up to 13 now - and not re-building his army:



My army now outstrips both his and athlete's put together, and I still have well-established cities that can churn out new troops.

I'm usually quite an agreeable guy; but athlete got in over his head, and didn't realise by quite how much until it had reached the point where he was already mostly crippled, and any settlement would have put him out of the game completely.

mh on the other hand negotiated a peace treaty at a time when the outcome was probably still in doubt, but before he was definitely out of the game. However, since then he has not made much of an effort to work with me and Ruff, so I'm already thinking of declaring on him at the first opportunity. Nor has he started to arm himself for the conflict that these actions are encouraging. Probably he is depending on the remaining 14t of our NAP to run his troop build-up, but with athlete on the ropes now, I should be able to have most of my current force waiting for him at that time.

Handing over a contested city in the middle of a war to a third party is a cheesy play at best. For mh to accept that city while my army is camped outside he has to have been aware that I wasn't going to be happy about it, and that's certainly not the way you go about making friends.

Will I attack the city if it changes hands? I'm not sure, but probably yes. (since my advance stack is on a road NE of Medina, I could move it through the city and then attack back with my 2-movers I think before anything can arrive from Vienna)

However if the exchange does not take place right now, I am intending to use a Spy to force a revolt next turn and take the city with my advance stack without bombarding, and thus avoid the issue.

[Dreylin]

Well it seems that mh has made his decision. I need some time to think through how best to reply to this, and I'm certainly not going to send anything to him until after he's played the turn. Let him make his own assumptions about what I'm going to do.

Hi,
I am planning to accept the city of Medina this turn.
My astrologers tell me that the tiles south of Medina will indeed be under my influence from the beginning.
So, that will speed up your march to Mecca by 3 turns compared to you going through Medina.
What I want from you is a statement whether you intend to break the NAP we have over the city of Medina.
My ETA for Constitution is 8-9 turns if all goes according to plan.

Regards
mh

I'm also not convinced that he's correct about the tiles S of Medina being his; Baghdad has popped 4th ring and is 5S of Medina, but I don't know how the 2x2lake in between will affect things.

Actually, maybe I'll just send him this:

Hey,

Y'know for someone who's admitted to being paranoid about a "huge modern veteran army" on his doorstep, you seem to be taking great pains to antagonise it's General.

Before you play, let me ask you this: in the 'Poly game, how would you have felt if PAL had accepted the Templars' offer to gift their remaining cities in the teeth of the RB war machine?

Dreylin II.

[Dreylin]

Well mh is sticking to his guns:

Hi,
I really don't think the situation is the same, and I could start a long argument why or why not.
But, time is short on my end.
All I need to know from you is:
Are you going to honor the NAP or not if I accept Medina?

Regards
mh

And why exactly should I tell you that!?

mh,

I guess you'll find out next turn, won't you.

Dreylin II.

[Dreylin]

t127 - angry, but not going to lt it ruin my reputation, nor divert my focus from destroying athlete ... mh has secured the inevitability of his receiving the pointy end of my ceremonial sword.

Ruff takes 120g at start of turn; should be the last he needs to complete Steam, and then we'll save a bit and maybe run some upgrades or maybe push him straight on to RR for super-fast reinforcements.

OK, so let's see what athlete has done with his troops:

Rifle & Longbow from Medina are now 2E of Mecca, and have been joined by the Mace from Najran.

All 6 Cuirassiers have been consolidated into Baghdad, and one has been upgraded to Cav.

The Musket previously East of Baghdad has moved inside the city and upgraded to Rifle. Also upgraded are one of Kufah's injured Muskets, and the Longbow. The other Musket remains unpromoted as-yet.

The Longbow from Mecca has moved towards Baghdad, and has been joined by a (presumably Drafted) Rifle.

A final Rifle sits un-moved in Mecca, and it looks to have been whipped to completion.

Total forces:
5 Cuirassier
1 Cavalry
1 GG Cavalry
6 Rifleman
1 Musket
2 Longbowman
1 Maceman
1 Cannon

Seems like it's time to consolidate my armies. Northern stacklets meet on the plains East of Medina; from here they will move South and then West to approach Baghdad from the NE.

1 Cuirassier
3 Cavalry
1 GG HA
2 Rifleman
11 Jannissaries
5 Cannon
1 Catapult

They'll be joined by a further 2 Rifle, Cannon & Cavalry moving in from Bursa, and will reach the walls of Baghdad in 3t from now - so able to attack on t131.

In the South, my Cav, Rifle & 2 Janns have secured the gateway hill tile and will await the rest of the army. Most of the forces injured at Kufah are now healed, however several (including the 2 Cannon) will require a further turn. Reinforcements are also moving forward, so in 3t I will be able to have th following forces join the Northern Army outside the city:

3 Cavalry
2 Rifleman
9 Jannissaries
1 Pikeman
3 Cannon


OK, new builds: Edirne - Bank, Konya - Cavalry, Gaziantep - Cavalry.

No Drafting, but I am going to whip the Settler at Diyarbakir ... I don't want mh poaching the Damascus spot! I also re-jig some tiles at cities with tight happy caps, and hire an Engineer in Istanbul to try and speed up the next GP.

Culture at 10% for 88gpt & Economics in 29t. EPs still directed towards athlete; should beable to revolt Baghdad when the time comes.