I took the freedom and made two changes:
1. I put Mardoc(bowman) inside Isandlwana (he was zone-defending SE of the city). The reason is that if Ichabod, or somebody else, would come scouting us from the west with a galley+warrior that city could burn. (We don't have visibility on the tile 3W of Isandlwana)
2. I switched two tiles: I gave plains hill mine to Agincourt and fish to BoP. It's just too wasteful to convert all that food with 1:1 ratio into hammers as Agincourt is building a settler. BoP does not currently have a proper 7th tile, but as we chatted, we want to whip it soonish again and we might as well get it closer to full food box. Agincourt can take the fish back in two turns after it has finished its settler build
(October 28th, 2013, 14:05)TheHumanHydra Wrote: Yay on chariot; I suggest putting it in Hastings. Oh and can you check its odds on the jungley axes when it comes out?
We most definitely have to name this Chariot somehow after Hydra! You better appreciate it! Getting that chariot out did not only cost us 30 hammers, it also delayed our granary by a turn and therefore cost us 5 food as well..
Those axes are gathering fortify bonus, have jungle defense, and the top defender has C1 (while our chariot is unpromoted) so I think we actually don't have odds on them. But at least we are safer if suttree attacks and our chariot can kill them on flat ground. Btw, I'm not sure I want to build more chariots right now, because already 1 spear on top of the stack makes them useless. But yeah, I agree, Hastings is a good place to put that chariot. It's flexible and suttree won't see it.
Ok it looks like we have two important things to decide now:
1. Which of the iron spots do we take? It influences what workers near Cannae and Gallipoli do next turn. I still like the spot S of iron. M_h does not have any military so we can be a bit aggressive and if we choose E of iron m_h can steal the rice by planting on that plains hill S or rice..
2. What do the 5 workers at Dunkirk dyes do.
- 1 goes SSW of Dunkirk and mines the grassland hill?
- 1 moves NE and starts roading towards the desert hill site?
- 1 moves SE-SE-E and pre-cottages the tile W of Hastings?
- 1 moves towards W, wastes a worker turn and starts building new grassland cottages for our core cities?
- And the last one either goes towards Hastings or helps cottaging our core? Where do we have a bigger need for two workers?
I'm not sure we need to start roading towards desert hill just yet, but now our workers are kind of in a practical position for starting it..
Those changes sound okay, does that delay the settler though?
Okay, I'll go for the southern iron spot on the principle that it stops m_h settling on that hill. Did I mention that we should be worried that m_h has metal casting and so possibly triremes?
On the workers, I thought:
- one would finish the grass cottage by Endor, allowing it to grow another size
- another would move to the hill NW of Hastings to build a mine, then when the borders pop he can start getting those dyes ready.
But that makes seven possible actions. I think your first two are important, then one of the Hastings actions, so how about
A) S-S-SW, mine
B) NE, road (he'll need cover, at least a bowman)
C) SE-SE-E pre-cot, NE farm, then chop jungle
D) S-SW-SW, road the jungle hill, W-W cottage
E) NW-N cottage, then SW to build cottages for Agincourt.
Desert hill city isn't far away, I think A) can get up there via a jungle chop and a forest chop to help B) out with the floodplains farm.
Our chariot has 69% odds on the CI axe on the jungle, but if it's fortified fully it drops to 32%... It's only really good when Suttree attacks and we can hit on the flat land. How about calling it TheInhumanHydra?
Edit: Changed all the directions so they point in the actual directions I was thinking of
(October 28th, 2013, 16:41)Old Harry Wrote: Those changes sound okay, does that delay the settler though?
Nope! We even get couple of hammers overflow!
Quote:Okay, I'll go for the southern iron spot on the principle that it stops m_h settling on that hill. Did I mention that we should be worried that m_h has metal casting and so possibly triremes?
You didn't, but good point! Goodbye fishing nets if he wants to be annoying! I doubt though..
Quote:Desert hill city isn't far away, I think A) can get up there via a jungle chop and a forest chop to help B) out with the floodplains farm.
I like this.
Quote:Our chariot has 69% odds on the CI axe on the jungle, but if it's fortified fully it drops to 32%... It's only really good when Suttree attacks and we can hit on the flat land. How about calling it TheInhumanHydra?
for the name
We chatted a bit with Harry about the workers. I'll post here tomorrow morning a pic showing the options and a suggestion.
Ok, I spent a good while planning our micro ahead (in our core area). Here's a picture of the area as a reminder:
Let’s start with realities. Agincourt, BoP, Cannae, Endor, Dunkirk & Gallipoli are really working all their improved tiles. We have only 2 extra tiles (both at Dunkirk thanks to improving calendar resources)! At the same time this is a very nice performance in the sense that we have managed to provide exactly the right amount of worker support for our cities (no waste!), but at the same time the situation is of course worrying/challenging. If we need to limit our growth because we don't have tiles to grow on.. We have failed..
So here's the summary of our core cities estimated needs in the coming turns. I.e. how I see the growth plan of our cities:
Agincourt: 1st new tile needed on T109 (grows EOT108), 2nd new tile needed ~T115 BoP: 1st new tile needed on T111 Cannae: 1st new tile needed on T110, 2nd tile needed T115 Dunkirk: Tiles ready until size 5, 1st new tile needed ~T111/2 Endor: No new tiles necessary needed Gallipoli: Whip incoming, 1st new tile needed ~T113 City K (southern iron): Will be founded T109 City L (NE desert hill): Will be founded T111
So what this means:
- It means that the situation is actually pretty manageable.
- We already have 1 worker at Cannae, it will improve our 2nd sugar tile perfectly on T110 and thus take care of Cannae's immidate tile needs
- New worker will be born in Gallipoli EOT107/8 and aupport in cottaging our core
- That leaves rest of our workers with the duty of supporting our new cities and building 3 tile improvements during the next 7 turns (Agincourt, BoP & Dunkirk) ((2 cottages and grassland mine for dunkirk))
Ok, and below my suggestion, it's kind of a combination between our previous ideas. What I want to do is to channel 2 workers to Hastings. Reason: 1 worker would be enough to handle Hastings' immediate needs (finishing the farm + cottage), but the city has 2 strong commerce tiles that require a lot of worker turns. Namely 2 jungled dyes tiles. If we want to work those tiles within a reasonable time frame we really need to get 2 workers there to start the job asap. Jamestown has two workers, but thanks to great food resources of the city, it will also need 2 supporting workers during the next 10 turns.
So here is my suggestion illustrated:
- Worker 1: Moves NW-N and finishes the cottage near Endor. In effect this means that Agincourt has 1 extra tile available.
- Worker 2: Moves NE onto forest and starts roading towards the new city site
- Worker 3: Moves S-S-SW builds a mine for Dunkirk/Gallipoli and then heads towards the new city site so that we get its flood plains farmed asap.
- Workers 4 & 5: Move towards Hastings, finish cottage + farm and start improving 2 dyes resources + riverside cottages/farms
- New worker born EOT107 in Gallipoli: Moves NW-N and helps worker 1 to build a new cottage (new tile for Agincourt releasing 1 tile for BoP), after that the workers build a riverside cottage for Gallipoli.
- Continuation: Worker 1 probably supports chopping of jungle S of Cannae, "New Worker builds further cottages for Agincourt/BoP/Gallipoli, we have surely whipped BoP (galley) or some other city at this point giving us some breathing room
- Variation: If you don't like sending two workers to Hastings, one worker can do "movement onto jungled hill - road it - help in cottaging" - thing that we discussed in the chat. However according to my calculations we can manage without it and can afford to send two workers towards Hastings.
Blue arrows in the south illustrate movements required for roading towards the iron site.
Aaaand I did one further tile change..
I also gave Agincourt's other fish to Endor, just for this turn. Next turn Agincourt takes it back again. Agincourt will still reach 100/100 hammers in settler eot105, but this gets Endor to 71/100 in its settler eot107. Therefore we can 1-pop whip the settler on T108 and this way our City L can already be founded T111.
Okay.. If you managed until here.. I'm probably online in gmail most of the day so if you want to discuss this stuff..
I like all of this, even your rejection of the jungle hill road makes sense and getting that dye online quicker is worthwhile. A couple of suggestions:
- Endor worker could road the plains NE of Agincourt, then cottage S of the city (I don't think that delays anything and it gives us a road for one worker turn.)
- Dunkirk workers can chop the dye jungle and the forest next to it to allow a quick plantation or can split up to do the separate dye jungles slowly. I'd prefer the former.
- We need a bowman to go with our Desert hill worker. In fact fog-busting the whole river valley would be valuable.
I just tried to figure out a way of settling K a turn sooner by moving the settler to the sugar instead of Gallipoli, but we don't have the workers available to make it work
Anyway I've written that into the micro spreadsheet now, so it's law.
Quote:- Endor worker could road the plains NE of Agincourt, then cottage S of the city (I don't think that delays anything and it gives us a road for one worker turn.)
If we have time for it, let's do it! I think we will. There are couple of moving objects, such as "do we have horses in our core" and "when do we actually whip Gallipoli" that might influence it
Quote:- Dunkirk workers can chop the dye jungle and the forest next to it to allow a quick plantation or can split up to do the separate dye jungles slowly. I'd prefer the former.
You mean Hastings, right? Yeah, let's do it either the way you suggested or through some kind of "one worker roads the jungle first"-thing
Quote:- We need a bowman to go with our Desert hill worker. In fact fog-busting the whole river valley would be valuable.
Let's take the one from Endor and trust dtay, we might even want to send the spear as well ~T107 and just produce a quick bowman after the settler..
Quote:I just tried to figure out a way of settling K a turn sooner by moving the settler to the sugar instead of Gallipoli, but we don't have the workers available to make it work
Oh, that was a good idea, but yeah, as you said probably too worker intensive..
Latest news:Suttree played and did not do anything interesting (6 axes still in place). There is that one worker still chopping and trying to transform a forest into a new unit. Assuming we win against the barb axe: Maybe we want to threaten that worker with 1 bowman next turn again? Kind of playing us more time? Suttree would probably need to move an axe or two away from the "staging tile". If he moves in with those 6 axes and retreats the worker we get a chance to use our Hykephalos immediately..
Btw, I made a noob mistake and got us stuck in the diplo screen (wanted to check suttree's no. of cities while the game was paused..). We don't need to log in during this turn anymore so it should not matter, but just that you know and don't wonder about the trade screen when you log in next time..
(October 29th, 2013, 08:57)Old Harry Wrote: - Dunkirk workers can chop the dye jungle and the forest next to it to allow a quick plantation or can split up to do the separate dye jungles slowly. I'd prefer the former.
You mean Hastings, right? Yeah, let's do it either the way you suggested or through some kind of "one worker roads the jungle first"-thing
Yep Hastings, I have a blind spot for those two cities (among many other blind spots). A road to the desert hill city from that direction would also be useful. Hastings grows to size 2 this turn, I think we whip the granary t107 and it'll be t111 before it grows back so the farm wouldn't be ready in time or needed quickly so one guy can start roading while the other farms, that gets the dye ready a turn before Hastings hits size 3, so they can start roading the northern or southern dye early.
(October 29th, 2013, 09:23)Fintourist Wrote: Latest news:Suttree played and did not do anything interesting (6 axes still in place). There is that one worker still chopping and trying to transform a forest into a new unit. Assuming we win against the barb axe: Maybe we want to threaten that worker with 1 bowman next turn again? Kind of playing us more time? Suttree would probably need to move an axe or two away from the "staging tile". If he moves in with those 6 axes and retreats the worker we get a chance to use our Hykephalos immediately..
I'm guessing another three axes appear on that jungle next turn or the turn after. I think I like threatening the worker, either:
- he retreats the worker and another chop is delayed
- he retreats the worker and moves on Jamestown next turn and we have a bowman out of place (although it can probably cover our stack)
- he moves two axes to cover the worker and we know he's not moving on Jamestown for another couple of turns
- he sends an axe or two to kill the bowman (because the worker has been roading, not chopping), but they don't get odds so we probably kill one
I like all of these scenarios!
Not sure I understood retep's message in the tech thread - is he in a turn split or just didn't have time for his turn?
(October 29th, 2013, 13:09)Old Harry Wrote: Yep Hastings, I have a blind spot for those two cities (among many other blind spots). A road to the desert hill city from that direction would also be useful. Hastings grows to size 2 this turn, I think we whip the granary t107 and it'll be t111 before it grows back so the farm wouldn't be ready in time or needed quickly so one guy can start roading while the other farms, that gets the dye ready a turn before Hastings hits size 3, so they can start roading the northern or southern dye early.
Yeah, granary whip t107! I didn't quite catch what you ment, do you mean that one worker moves onto dyes already next turn or are they finishing cottage and/or farm first? Having dyes so early improved sounds good anyways!
(October 29th, 2013, 09:23)Fintourist Wrote: Latest news:Suttree played and did not do anything interesting (6 axes still in place). There is that one worker still chopping and trying to transform a forest into a new unit. Assuming we win against the barb axe: Maybe we want to threaten that worker with 1 bowman next turn again? Kind of playing us more time? Suttree would probably need to move an axe or two away from the "staging tile". If he moves in with those 6 axes and retreats the worker we get a chance to use our Hykephalos immediately..
Quote:I'm guessing another three axes appear on that jungle next turn or the turn after. I think I like threatening the worker, either:
Yeah.. Cross your fingers that we win that barb axe..
Quote:- he sends an axe or two to kill the bowman (because the worker has been roading, not chopping), but they don't get odds so we probably kill one
At least this turn it was chopping!
Quote:I like all of these scenarios!
Yeah, if we win that barb axe, let's be annoying once again..! Making friends is surely not our thing..
Quote:Not sure I understood retep's message in the tech thread - is he in a turn split or just didn't have time for his turn?
I think he at least has been in war earlier? Based on his score low he might still be in it..
Both workers finish the cotage t106 (and Hastings works it for a turn), then one does the farm from t106 to t108, the other does the dye road t108-9 and both finish the plantation t113. Except that we don't need it until t114, so one worker can move to another jungle tile t113 and road again.
You better appreciate it! Getting that chariot out did not only cost us 30 hammers, it also delayed our granary by a turn and therefore cost us 5 food as well.. 
for the name
suggestion.
At the same time this is a very nice performance in the sense that we have managed to provide exactly the right amount of worker support for our cities (no waste!), but at the same time the situation is of course worrying/challenging. If we need to limit our growth because we don't have tiles to grow on.. We have failed..![[Image: Worker%20Micro%20T105-110.JPG]](https://dl.dropbox.com/s/5kh1ahp3ijxqhns/Worker%20Micro%20T105-110.JPG)
I think I like threatening the worker, either:
Making friends is surely not our thing.. 