WW29: Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood

[Rowain]

Also, just to be perfectly clear. All of the PMs were in the initial post all along, under a spoiler tag. At least as far as I recall.

Yep that's what BRick says. And this is what I find suspicious on MJW's stunt.

[Jkaen]

You suck brick for not posting the village PM. This may have been okay if you didn't expand in the PM but you did. I won't exploit your mistake but I will mock you.

he only adds info to his case once the scum PM is posted.

What are you getting at here? If he's scum he had access to the scum PM all along.

In his opening post he suggests that the villager post contains some sort of spoiler information, which i don't see as existing.

He later argues the case about PM info by talking about scum win condition.

My theory was he didnt notice the PMs if they were already there (given Bricks reaction i think they were not) and took a gamble that there would be something in the village PM he could claim he was refering to when questioned. That way he tries to get meta cleared which may have been the only way the thought likely to survive to the end

[Jkaen]

Sorry, I just realized that wasn't there. It's actually on my planning sheet, but got left out of the copy paste over when I made some edits.

Does this post not refer to the PMs being missing?

[Meiz]

If the pm's were missing, it would be really easy to exploit it. For example by saying that "I was only given one weapon" or something along those lines.

[zakalwe]

Sorry, I just realized that wasn't there. It's actually on my planning sheet, but got left out of the copy paste over when I made some edits.

Does this post not refer to the PMs being missing?

I think it refers to rule 18 being missing.

You suck brick for not posting the village PM. This may have been okay if you didn't expand in the PM but you did. I won't exploit your mistake but I will mock you.

he only adds info to his case once the scum PM is posted.

What are you getting at here? If he's scum he had access to the scum PM all along.

In his opening post he suggests that the villager post contains some sort of spoiler information, which i don't see as existing.

He later argues the case about PM info by talking about scum win condition.

My theory was he didnt notice the PMs if they were already there (given Bricks reaction i think they were not) and took a gamble that there would be something in the village PM he could claim he was refering to when questioned. That way he tries to get meta cleared which may have been the only way the thought likely to survive to the end

Ok, I need to think about that, but it doesn't sound entirely implausible, under the assumption that MJW actually thought the role PMs were missing (even if they weren't). The "default" counterargument is that he'd be likely to double-check for those role PMs before posting anything about it if he's scum.

[zakalwe]

I was thinking that it's quite hard to get any scum evidence or slip ups without votes in play, so it would be more likely that we just help scum to choose optimal target for night 0 kill. That comment was for the night 0, so I'm not generally against talking at night. I didn't realize the fact of giving our doctor a better chance to prevent the kill though, so it probably balances things.

Maybe I'm nitpicking, but I'm not entirely sure I buy this. If posting during night 0 only helped scum determine the optimal night kill, then the same would be true on every other night. Every night ends with a potential night kill, and we can never vote at night. So night 0 isn't an exception.

[Serdoa]

MJW

That whole meta-stuff seems pretty MJW to me at first glance, but I don't like how he generally asked not to talk at night, just to talk like a madman himself. I believe he stated that "no nighttalk" just because he thought that is what village would do while he himself talked regardless because he hoped to get everyone else to talk as well.

Also I'm pretty certain I saw a few PMs listed. Maybe the standard villager was missing though, I can't say for certain.

@zak

With that argument you can pretty much counter everything. If every scum would play perfectly and always do the right moves we could as well stop playing, no?

[Meiz]

I was thinking that it's quite hard to get any scum evidence or slip ups without votes in play, so it would be more likely that we just help scum to choose optimal target for night 0 kill. That comment was for the night 0, so I'm not generally against talking at night. I didn't realize the fact of giving our doctor a better chance to prevent the kill though, so it probably balances things.

Maybe I'm nitpicking, but I'm not entirely sure I buy this. If posting during night 0 only helped scum determine the optimal night kill, then the same would be true on every other night. Every night ends with a potential night kill, and we can never vote at night. So night 0 isn't an exception.

The difference is, we have no info on night 0, but we have info on night 1.

[Lewwyn]

On phone. Do not buy MJW as scum.

[zakalwe]

Ok, Meiz, I kind of expected that response. We can generate information during night 0, though, and then act on it. But I'm ready to let that thread go at this point.

With that argument you can pretty much counter everything. If every scum would play perfectly and always do the right moves we could as well stop playing, no?

Yes, that's why I referred to it as the "default" counterargument. And the default counter-counterargument is WIFOM.

I'll keep an open mind for now.