WW29: Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood

[Meiz]

Rowain said zak is safe from his kill, since hasn't got gun or claws. He'd still have his vote

And where are the indications that Rowain suspected me at all? This argument is inane and you should know it.

I didn't say Rowain had any suspicion against you, just said that it would be more likely for him to point his attention towards you or novice in the following days. Keep a more close eye on both of you so to speak.

Meiz really hasn't been convincing, either. If he's town I guess his story is essentially the same as Lewwyn's; he's confident in MJW being town and therefore wants to lynch me. But I can definitely see him as scum, too. He may have been on thin ice with his no night talking stance yesterday. It did feel a little like he was having to improvise some arguments there. And it seems unlike him to build cases based on the night kill, when it should be easy to see that the night kill tells us very little.

Why are you so eager on shutting down the speculation regarding the night kill? It might not tell anything for certain, but it would be stupid to ignore it. Sure, you're one of the targets but for example were you not interested at all on putting pressure against GoreRipper due to Rowain dying? It's day 1 and there's not yet much to go on for, so putting pressure on people is where we get tells.

@Jkaen, my opinion regarding night talking was not strong and I'm not generally against it. Day 0 was a special case and I figured we wouldn't get any scum reads of anyone, since there was nothing to accuse anyone of. So it would have been more likely that we just point scum towards the optimal kill. On next night we have the Day 1 to discuss, so I'm not opposed we use the time to do it.

[MJW (ya that one)]

I like Miez's point about Brick being angry. This is a good meta-point and I feel that miez would not be eager to point this out as a wolf. He's tone seems villagerish as well...

I'm not lynchbait, goreripper. I acted like a total asshole in ww9 and still would have not been lynched even if all three wolfs vote for me. And that was a real possibility as Sarlen waited until the last second to vote against my lynch.

" Ok, then. In the future I will make sure to only strive for fairness when it benefits me. :smile: " -Zak

Yes. The key word is strive. It would have been okay if you found being fair to the wolfs acceptable but you STRIVED for it. And you pretty much immediately do so. This and not really pushing anyone makes me suspect you. You also seem to be hedging your bets and pulling your punches to retain flexibility...

Serdoa seems to be in character so if it comes down to Serdoa vs you I'll probably go with Serdoa. My mind could be changed as Serdoa always suspects me though... He's probably a villager as he seems a bit annoyed already. The other person who I don't like is goreripper for reasons I've said before.

Oh, Zak from my perspective was what Brick expanded on in the PMs was the town's victory condition. It was not in the rules at first so the only way to have that information would be to be in the town's side. A wolf would not know that the town only draws if they kill all of them! This is other reason why I didn't do it. It would be exactly the same as that game were I was "Courage" and I didn't want it to become the "MJW gambit". (Posting the village's victory condition to get cleared)

Why did you edit other's people's posts in your quotes, Goreripper?

Mattimeo is not reading the thread very much as he still doesn't see were brick expanded in the village-sided PMs.

I don't see a strong enough reason to switch my vote off from Zak.

[zakalwe]

Feel free to put pressure on whoever you like, Meiz.

Maybe I have been too dismissive about your night kill speculation, but it's hard to give that line of thought much credence when the main thing you're using it for is to paint me as scum. And I stand by my general statement that any case built on the fact that Rowain is dead is bound to be a fundamentally weak case. That's because everybody would have a motive to see Rowain dead. To say that I'm scum because Rowain would have been bound to point his attention to me later in the game is pretty ridiculous. All you're saying is that I would want him dead because he's a strong player, and the same would be true no matter who is scum.

Now, since you insist on speculating about it, consider this. I had Rowain in my back pocket last game, while Lewwyn was the scum player who Rowain was actually on to. So maybe your highly trusted Lewwyn would have more to fear from Rowain? This isn't a strong argument against Lewwyn, but I'd say it's at least as good as your argument against me.

[Goreripper]

Why did you edit other's people's posts in your quotes, Goreripper, other than for the previously indicated reason of your own amusement?

No other reason really.

[zakalwe]

MJW, it sounds like we can debate the fairness issue until the cows come home. If I end up mislynched because I was too eager to be fair, I guess it's not the worst of reasons.

The reason I'm not really pushing anyone, hedging my bets, and pulling my punches is that I don't have a strong scum read on anyone. I don't trust Novice yet, though. What do you think about him?

[Goreripper]

At the risk of my sanity I will engage a bit more.

" Ok, then. In the future I will make sure to only strive for fairness when it benefits me. :smile: " -Zak

Yes. The key word is strive. It would have been okay if you found being fair to the wolfs acceptable but you STRIVED for it. And you pretty much immediately do so. This and not really pushing anyone makes me suspect you. You also seem to be hedging your bets and pulling your punches to retain flexibility...

I believe Zakalwe when he says he wants the rules to be clear and fair. The rule debate was pretty minor. The meta stuff is a terrible way to play the game but it seems like that is your main focus.

So talk to me about these other things. Where is Zakalwe pulling his punches? Where is he hedging his bets? This is the kind of evidence I find useful. Show me this. Keep trumping your meta game insanity and you will get no where.

[Goreripper]

Well that was a terrible cross post. Apparently you both see hedging. Zakalwe what do you find suspicious about novice? Obviously as he is voting for me right now I think he is wrong but that is not a capital crime.

[Serdoa]

I probably should reread further, but as I read the new posts already:

@MJW: I find it interesting that you in the same sentence state that you lean villager on me but also that your mind could be changed because I always suspect you. I actually don't btw and have defended you in games even, but that's beside the point right now. Why would you vote me, if you lean villager on me, just because I suspect you always? Suspecting you doesn't make me scum.

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Regarding Rowain being night-killed I would agree with zak that building a case based on "he would like to see Rowain dead" isn't really making sense, especially as Rowain showed investment into the game what is a good reason to kill him + chances are lower that he is protected (as every sane doctor would protect himself or if he isn't allowed one of zak, novice, Lewwyn or me).

And imo, trying to push a case basing just on who would like to kill Rowain is at best lazy play. EVERYONE would like to kill Rowain, that's an effect of his charming personality.

[zakalwe]

Well that was a terrible cross post. Apparently you both see hedging. Zakalwe what do you find suspicious about novice? Obviously as he is voting for me right now I think he is wrong but that is not a capital crime.

In short, his play today reminds me of his play on day 2 of WW28.

Also just general paranoia, since nobody else stands out as hugely scummy.

[Mattimeo]

Touching base to indicate I'm still alive; don't have any time right now. Will see about actually contributing to this when I get back from work.