Bunbunmaru News Reports In! (Kuro Spoiler Thread)

[WilliamLP]

Also, what's your feeling on scouting? My gut is to plan to settle 1E (hopefully you're convinced it's a extremely strong early move), but scout west first, in case there's something amazing there like wet corn and / or gold and gems or something.

[Kuro]

Again, my take on it is to keep urging you not to be too seduced by saving a few turns on a settler, but instead try and make a quantitative judgement on what saving those turns buys you for the rest of the game, vs the trade-off of building up the capital just a little more first and having a stronger later game. Maybe the earlier settler is the right answer but it's a decision that can be analyzed. (Though Civ does have a lot of pretty intangible elements too.)

I don't know if I'm right, but I think a few turns saved on pottery and the first granaries are about as important as the first city itself, since growth starts to gets doubled, and the economics of the whip change completely. (And also the more-than-linear value of cottages scaling with the time you work them.)

Edit: That Zara build looks interesting! It's a stronger position than my build #2 probably, other than the fact that you won't be able to immediately chop a granary in the first settlement.

Earlier Settler probably depends on a few things, but the earlier Settler doesn't really hurt Pottery in these builds, as Pottery will come in at the same time either way (Plus...we couldn't have really built or done anything with a Granary yet as far as I can see in either build, unless we went Pottery first, which probably delays the first Settler by over 10T even with Agriculture/The Wheel, which to me feels like a poor trade-off. Same with cottages, though we will lay a single cottage down about 4T later than a build that has Pottery by then, but I don't think it is a big deal because you work the food and farmed Flood Plains at size 1/2 anyway.). I don't think we should whip it out, but I do like the T27/T29 builds. They seem to get out the Settler quickly without sacrificing too much growth.

Zara build was basically the Isabella build but delayed, so it might be able to be improved.

[Kuro]

Also, what's your feeling on scouting? My gut is to plan to settle 1E (hopefully you're convinced it's a extremely strong early move), but scout west first, in case there's something amazing there like wet corn and / or gold and gems or something.

1E is definitely the right move.

I was thinking we might want to scout in a circular pattern and check out any good resources (Grains, precious metals, etc) we see as we do so, assuming the fogged tiles allow it.

[Kuro]

Zara Yaqob has been taken, so if we want Creative, we'll need a different leader.

[Kuro]

Something I don't get, though: Why Zara of Greece and not Zara of the Mayans? I know Mysticism is bad, but unless there is a seafood resource and hunting resource at his capital, Fishing/Hunting won't be worth a lot more...and the Mayans get a kickass Creative UB + Mining. So I can only assume that he had a fishing resource and wanted to be able to build WBs.

[Kuro]

Turns out I also forgot how snake picks work (I haven't actually snake picked in years, since PB11 was random!), so we only have 1 person before us in leaders. Therefor, we are assured to have our choice of at least 1 of Hannibal or Isabella, in addition to a Creative civ(Options remaining being: Louis XIV, Catherine, Pericles, Hatshepsut, Kublai Khan, LOL GIRUGAMESH).

[WilliamLP]

Hmm, yeah it's kind of slim pickings now for creative. Hattie (Spiritual), Louis (Industrious), Catherine (Imperialistic) would be the main draws I guess, and I think all are considered average at best. Expansionist too is pretty picked over.

I'm still hoping you pick either Hannibal or Vicky, or even Ragnar to try and prevent Seven and Krill from Rofl-stomping this game.

[Kuro]

Hmm, yeah it's kind of slim pickings now for creative. Hattie (Spiritual), Louis (Industrious), Catherine (Imperialistic) would be the main draws I guess, and I think all are considered average at best. Expansionist too is pretty picked over.

I'm still hoping you pick either Hannibal or Vicky, or even Ragnar to try and prevent Seven and Krill from Rofl-stomping this game.

The problem with picking Ragnar is that he kind of sucks unless you are Zulu or Rome, so nobody wants to pick him and make themselves worse to improve the chances of the field vs. Seven/Krill (Since it corrospondingly lowers their chances for themselves vs. the field).

I'd probably rather pick Catherine over Vicky: Imperialistic works a lot better with culture than with financial, IMO, because of the fact your cities need to be able to go up fast to keep the advantage and correct timing means you won't crash your economy.

Louis is interesting with no Stone/Marble, but does 2 other Industrious civs lower him down too much? I think he'd be a great option with one for sure, but two?

Hannibal would be an excellent choice, even if I'd have to deal with building monuments again. I would say that Isabella would be tempting too, though, even ignoring the accelerated opening Expansive/Spiritual is a pretty good combo and Spiritual can soften the blow of no Creative (Flip to Caste, pump out a Great Scientist and pump your borders to boot!). I dunno.

[WilliamLP]

Something I don't get, though: Why Zara of Greece and not Zara of the Mayans? I know Mysticism is bad, but unless there is a seafood resource and hunting resource at his capital, Fishing/Hunting won't be worth a lot more...and the Mayans get a kickass Creative UB + Mining. So I can only assume that he had a fishing resource and wanted to be able to build WBs.

Yeah, they must have seafood, probably fish. Also the phalanx is quite good - you just laugh at chariots and don't need to build spears like everyone else does, unless you see someone going for Horseback Riding.

[Kuro]

Something I don't get, though: Why Zara of Greece and not Zara of the Mayans? I know Mysticism is bad, but unless there is a seafood resource and hunting resource at his capital, Fishing/Hunting won't be worth a lot more...and the Mayans get a kickass Creative UB + Mining. So I can only assume that he had a fishing resource and wanted to be able to build WBs.

Yeah, they must have seafood, probably fish. Also the phalanx is quite good - you just laugh at chariots and don't need to build spears like everyone else does, unless you see someone going for Horseback Riding.

Phalanx is good, but I will admit I don't think I've really seen them utilized very well, and they still get even odds on Axes, so it's a bit of a coinflip anyway, yes? He's not Aggressive to boost 'em, after all.

But seafood's gotta be it.