(November 22nd, 2013, 01:01)Merovech Wrote: Wait, are we supposed to use full map knowledge? I'm guessing yes, based on your screenshot.
Yes, I did write that below the second picture. I'm glad the screenshot clued you in on it.
Wow, I have no idea how I missed that.
Anyway, I've got a plan that I like, but I think that I can do better. Thanks for giving us China, btw. It just makes everything so much easier.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Nice idea. I could try to find time to play and participate to discussion, even if micro management really isn't my strongpoint or something I really want to invest lots of time to.
I'd like to see the goal or evaluation criteria written down somewhere, even if I can probably read it between the lines. I suspect it is something like the best possible opening considering a game full of elite players that should last at least 150T. Even this is quite vague and gives evaluator lots of subjective freedom to choose their favorite. My main point is that one shouldn't consider optimal the opening that short-sightedly places the cities and chops the forests just to maximise the hammer/food/beaker output for the 1st 30T without e.g. considering the security, wonder races or long term potential of the placed cities.
(November 22nd, 2013, 08:19)plako Wrote: I'd like to see the goal or evaluation criteria written down somewhere, even if I can probably read it between the lines. I suspect it is something like the best possible opening considering a game full of elite players that should last at least 150T. Even this is quite vague and gives evaluator lots of subjective freedom to choose their favorite. My main point is that one shouldn't consider optimal the opening that short-sightedly places the cities and chops the forests just to maximise the hammer/food/beaker output for the 1st 30T without e.g. considering the security, wonder races or long term potential of the placed cities.
I don't have a simple answer as I don't have any particular right solution in mind. I agree it would be short-sighted to just look at output at t30 (or total output through t30) and not consider e.g. forests remaining or cottage growth. I had written some more here but I deleted it: I want to just see how this develops and not have people aiming for some specific (or vague) criteria I set out. Ultimately I hope that people will learn stuff and consider the competitive aspect as a fun bonus which isn't too important.
I think I speak for most participants when I say it would be fantastic to see your take on the situation, even if you don't consider micro to be your strong point.
My reasoning, in short, was to expand horizontally for the best resources and for copper, and then grow vertically on granary builds and cottages once pottery is in.
Moving the settler SE to the forested plains hill seems strongest both short and long term.
Worker actions:
A: Farm corn (finished t12), move t13, road to Shanghai (t14-20), pasture pigs (t21-23), move to forest SE of Shanghai (t24-25), chop (t26-28), pasture sheep at Guangzhou (t29-30)
B (born in Shanghai eot28): Part-road tile SE of Shanghai t29. Finish sheep pasture at Guangzhou t30.
Adopt slavery t26.
Tiles: Turn 19 and Turn 25 work silk over forest hill for +1 commerce, the extra hammer would be lost to overflow rounding anyway.
* I could start the settler in Beijing immediately at size 2, but it's good to have the warrior done, and the second city won't be delayed by delaying the settler since that gives me time to road to the city. Instead of the road I could pasture the sheep (it is in the capital's culture from t13), but the road is useful, and this way I'm able to immediately start pasturing the pigs instead.
** The point of this maneuver is to get the final foodhammers needed for the planned worker now, while the pig pasture is being constructed, so that Shanghai can grow to size 2 in 3 turns.
In the continuation I'll be hooking up copper of course, laying down cottages and building granaries, and settling a few more cities. After Pottery I could tech Writing and let Shanghai or Guangzhou build a library and produce a great scientist.
It will be a while but I would like to do this sometime and have it commented on. I would like to get better and try playing competitively again, but I will need some practice first.
Your plan really shows the power of a worker-worker opening and early chops. The downside with the chops is... that your forests have been chopped. And if you don't chop then maybe you don't need the second worker. It would be interesting though to see how my general plan would work with a worker-worker opening.
I considered settling for the southern copper but even though you can share some great tiles with the capital, your city doesn't claim any new food resources.
Comments on Jowy's plan:
Your chosen capital is a great location... for Shanghai.
I love this idea. I assume the primary goal and motivator is to encourage people who may not have tried simming to see the benefits of it, and to provide feedback and learning etc?
mackoti Wrote:SO GAVAGAI WINNED ALOT BUT HE DIDNT HAD ANY PROBLEM?
![[Image: t15.JPG]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15215428/potluck/plana/t15.JPG)
![[Image: t20.JPG]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15215428/potluck/plana/t20.JPG)
![[Image: t25.JPG]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15215428/potluck/plana/t25.JPG)
![[Image: t30.JPG]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15215428/potluck/plana/t30.JPG)
![[Image: eventlog.JPG]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15215428/potluck/plana/eventlog.JPG)
