Q's Duels

[Qgqqqqq]

"I just played one of Q's duels,
I just played one of Q's duels!
I just played one of Q's duels,
I wonder what he did?"

Edit: For those viewing this later, the lack of images is because dropbox changed their functionality. This is a common problem across the fora.

[Qgqqqqq]

This will be a general reporting thread for my duels, so basically if you have an ongoing one with me, don't read any recent reports, though I will generally mark where I first start reporting one so as no one gets accidentally spoiled.

Righto, I've been playing two duels up to now, one against cornflakes that's been a bit slow-going and one that Gazglum and I started yesterday, where we have blitzed out about 20t already. It is so much more convenient dueling with similar timezones.

[Qgqqqqq]

Firstly, Cornflakes:
As mentioned in the start-up thread we are playing Charlemagne of France. PRO/IMP was chosen because we wanted to go for something unusual, rather then a power trait, and France for the chance to play around with protective musket-men. We're playing a mirrorland map, with usual ban settings, always war, and a rule whereby we can't enter the opponents capital with a warrior. We started at a site with two pigs and a plains marble nearby. We both moved to settle on the marble, getting a plains-hill gold in the fog as well.
At this point I've settled my second city and have a settler out for my third city which is founding for copper and sharing a pig with the capital. I have perhaps been going a bit light on workers, particularly for the early third city, but I wanted to get copper early, just in case. I sent my first warrior towards Cornflakes but he got stuck in a corner, and as we're on a mirrorland map he took a long time finding Cornflakes. By the time he got there his warrior was there to block passage to his capital. I circled up near his copper and tried to delay his settlement. Cornflakes has sent nothing my way, so perhaps I am being premature with copper (he doesn't have any strats hooked yet) but I figure it's better to be safe then sorry.
I founded Buddhism in my second city to pop the borders, Cornflakes got Hinduism in his.

[Qgqqqqq]

As everyone can see, this thread...never happened. I've seriously considered deleting it a few times, but I feel like reporting my current games, and one of my old duels deserves a AAR so I decided to post in here. So the duels so far (feel free to ignore any previous posts as they were a) useless and b) written ages ago):


Cornflakes:

Nothing happened, game gradually died because we played on a very large map and we each had other commitments. This was 8 months ago and my least exciting MP civ game (the Demogame at least had conflict, even if it was largely between other people or more imagined then real), so I can't remember anything else.


Jalapeno:

I went Varn Gosam of the Malakim and he took Thessa of the Ljolsofar, on a Mirrored Inland Sea. Unfortunately, we live in very incompatible timezones, and FFH early game is...unexciting to say the least. As a result it limped through the warrior choke stage until we dropped it after he was afk for a week.


Gazglum (Duel 1):

Here's where things get interesting. We each played as Khablai Khan (AGG/CRE) of Maya (Ball Court/Holkan) on a altered mirrorland map which is approximately half the size of a standard one - so very tight and high maintenance. Here was the starting capital (all pictures from the last turn of the game):


Gazglum actually settled 1NW of here, which, n retrospect, I get the feeling that that was the starting spot and I moved, giving up a turn on the (then-)forest for a stronger capital.

There was some fun early dynamics due to the small map, each of our warriors beelining the others capital (although along different pathlines) and briefly choking, culminating in a whipped Holkan on each side, who had a stand off in the area to my east.

Anyway, I grabbed an early lead by settling Alloy and Circa very quickly straight out to the west. Alloy was settled to quickly share food and cottages with the capital while picking up the gold, and Circa grabbing the very strong central copper spot, which was strategically very powerful as it prevented the opponent settling any further east:


I messed up with Circa, as at the time it was quite vulnerable because of his second cities culture, so I intended to found Hinduism in it to quickly grab the area. Unfortunately, I had forgotten that the priority is only against founding in the capital, NOT towards the newest city. So, predictably, I founded Hinduism in the higher-pop Alloy, which was part of my motivation in heading for a quick Code of Laws.

Because of his positioning Gazglum placed his second city here:


This picked up the sheep, pig and crabs. Unfortunately, the sheep was rather exposed, and IIRC forest choked at the time, so Gazglum chose to invest in improving the crabs, building an early workboat and lighthouse. Along with it not really sharing food, and a general neglect of both chopping and the whip, his expansion was slow enough that I was able to push out Circa despite very little garrison. I then made a play at Oracle in Circa, managing to land both Confucianism in it and the Oracle, slinging Civil Service there. The cultural barrier this created let me secure the area enough that he was "bottled in" at this juncture, giving me leave to fling up another aggressive front city, Mutal, to claim horse, pig, sheep and cow, as well as claiming the area to the north of his capital:


This is when Gazglum started to fight back, as with this city he was rather exposed, and it was *quite* an aggressive move, far closer to his cap then mine, which threatened him significantly. He built a city on the ruins there, which threatened to take the horses. Looking at it now, that was actually a really bad city.

At some point around now we each generated great scientists in our second cities, Gazglum's popping out much sooner, which was possibly a mistake given how delayed his third city would be. Gazglum also settled King Lear and Coriolanus in positions mimicking my Circa and Mutal respectively.

Meanwhile I settled Chichen Itza and Lakhamha:



At the time I was rather inexperienced at the midgame, and I sort of noodled around for a bit techwise, before deciding that I could take him out (I had a significant lead in land, pop and position) with macemen. This would be a decent move normally, although not as good as a knights push, except that I had forgotten a certain something which is generally banned:

Yup. I pushed, but not as much as I should have - Lakhamha was a complete waste of resources - towards macemen, whipping, chopping, and eventually upgrading up a storm (18 or so, which is a lot on a duel map). I was able to raze the unnamed city, early on and did some pillaging at his capital/King Lear, but he raced to construction and fielded WE and catapults against me. At the end of the game he pushed me back from King Lear and Macbeth, but I was able to raze Coriolanus with a surprise attack there, so he conceded.



In all honesty, I'm not sure I could have made any more progress. Elephants really do shut down Medieval conflict, and he had catapults available if I brought up any big stack. If the game had continued, I would've probably fallen back. The real advantage, despite my best attempts to squander it on an ill-advised war, lay in my economy. With the destruction of Coriolanus he was left with three cities to my six, and I was preparing to replace it (okay, 1S 3W, I'm not THAT aggressive ) within a few turns. Long-term, my superior expansion would've had him out-teched and -produced.

If anyone wants to poke around more, here is the save from the last turn. The password is "flakes".

[Commodore]

The minimap is hilarious. You have him completely surrounded!

[Qgqqqqq]

Haha, true
Made for a real pain scrolling, though.

[Qgqqqqq]

Bigger Opponents, Bigger Problems:

Initially named [some horrible scrawl utilizing Qgqqqqq as an acronym which need not be dredged up], and then quickly retitled "Q loses" by my opponent (whereupon we stopped renaming the game as we got sick of the folder sprawl), this name was to prove prophetic of my first (and, to date, last) duel against Bigger. We decided on a RBmod game, utilizing Sevens Torusland map script (20x20 dimensions). He played as Ramesses (SPI, IND) of Mali (Skirmisher, Mint) and I picked Wang Kong (FIN, PRO) of Inca. I won't go into much detail, as it was a quick game and I made several big strategic errors, helped by some map imbalance. Unfortunately the Torusland script meant that the strategic resources weren't balanced (this was either before the "Critical Resources Close" option, or we were too foolish to think to enable it), and I had no copper, where he had a close source.
Firstly, I didn't secure my horse immediately. I reasoned instead that my best path would be to ignore them as he could easily counter my horse, and race to Iron Working and hope to get lucky, so I settled for food and emphasized commerce, while he emphasized production and sent skirmishers at me. My research was also rather haphazard, as I didn't realise the immediate danger until I had already diverted through maths. While dueling with his skirmishers I built a decent unit of Quechas, and their inherent +100% versus archers meant I didn't try to get better units against his melee, leading to an embarrassing incident with a warrior pillaging and contributing to my delayed iron working. It also meant I didn't have Archery to defend my cities against his other units, so when he turned up with an axe I realized I didn't have a chance of holding my 3rd city, and when iron appeared in my borders but too near his troops I conceded.

Lessons I learned from this:
Firstly, duels should always be played on mirrored maps. The copper disparity certainly wasn't my only failure this map, but it was the one that ended it. In a FFA, slight inequalities or even large ones are ok, if not ideal, as having many players means there is going to be a significant random element anyway. In a duel, you are looking for a complete comparison of skills (with the occasional combat luck) so the same position is necessary - as are the banning of huts, events and barbarians. You can, of course, play with them on, but I think it retracts from the game as a true test of skill. For the same reason I'm personally in favor of mirrored combos, although it's more of a personal preference then anything else.
Secondly, long-term advantages are irrelevant if the enemy is at your gates. My third settler was sent out while I had a warrior nosing around my capital and a mexican stand-off to my east, but I committed significant resources away from the military and even founded in a good, yet exposed location. Also cottages are stupid in such a situation, no-one cares if my tech would surpass his in 20 turns time if he razes my cities in 5 turns.
Thirdly, focus is needed. I meandered up writing, mathematics and even started currency before I realised that I needed to get iron, and get it fast. Why was I going up that line? Because it was just default behaviour, I wasn't really paying attention to the game, just doing what I'd done a couple of times before. The same reason for the expansion claiming strong economic sites - it was something I had done before and I didn't put any effort into adapting to the different meta.
Finally, skirmishers are bloody irritating, and shouldn't be let into any small duel game.

[DaveV]

Are you being intentionally coy about your opponent's identity in your latest post?

[Qgqqqqq]

Sorry, I thought it was obvious. That duel was against Bigger.

Edit:

...this name was to prove prophetic of my first (and, to date, last) duel against Bigger.

[Bigger]

you had maths? man, I didn't realize how far up the econ line you were going, no wonder you folded so quickly once I started attacking . Currency would have been just about worthless to you. I don't duel much, but it seems to me in a 1v1 harassing slowing your opponent down is more useful than your own growth. I thought you were doing that when you harassed me w/ your warriors before I even figured out where your capital was.

We did start a second game, which was abandoned 5 turns in or so because I never had time anymore