Realms Beyond... Bridge?

[Pete]

Hi,

Griselda started a thread about online Bridge in the old RBD forum. In it she gave the reference to some online Bridge software at Bridge Base Online.

As a result of that, some of us have been playing Bridge on Friday afternoon/evenings. We've gotten together, usually, about 8:30 PM Pacific Standard.

I thought I'd make the continuation of the thread here because the old one was on the second page, but mostly because I like this forum *much* better (and the calender is a nice touch.

Topics for discussion? Well, arranging games is pretty obvious. Bidding conventions and what groups to join (if any) are also very appropriate.

--Pete

[Pete]

Hi,

Since we've had a bit of trouble getting four together for Bridge, Griselda suggested we join the Beginner/Intermediate Lounge (instructions below). Sounds like a good idea, so anyone planning to play would be advised to apply early (the application goes in by e-mail).

To apply, from the main Bridge Base Online screen, click the Play Bridge button.
On the resulting screen, click Private Clubs.
From the list of clubs, click on The Beginners/Intermediate Lounge, that will bring up the application "form".

--Pete

[Griselda]

Last week, as Pete mentioned, we had three players online; not enough for a game. We considered creating a "pubbie" table, but didn't really want to have one person get stuck as the partner of whoever wandered in first, not knowing who they were or even if they'd stick around for the entire hand (not bailing when their contract was likely to fail or if they were the dummy, for example).

The beginner/intermediate lounge might provide some insulation from that, because there are standards for membership. They're not stringent, but you do have to be able to fill out a form asking for membership, and there are etiquette expectations (nothing different than what we're already used to following in other RB games). So, that's a bit reassuring if we did have an open table spot to fill. Also, over time, it's possible that we could get to know some members of the "BIL" (Beginner/Intermediate Lounge) community who tend to be on at similar hours.

We've been meeting at 8:30 Pacific because that seems to be the earliest time that it would even be possible to have four present. But, I'm pretty sure an earlier time might work for others (Thenryb and Mrs. Thenryb?). If there's anyone who would want to meet a bit earlier at the BIL, please don't hesitate to speak up so that you're not left out.

-Griselda

[Griselda]

One side effect of moving into the somewhat wider community of the Beginner/Intermediate Lounge is that it would be helpful for us to clarifiy our "house" bidding conventions, and list at least the major features in our profiles. That way, if a fourth sat in, or even if someone was looking over our table to decide whether we'd be a good fit for them, they would have some idea what we're up to. It will also be helpful within our own group, because it has come up a few times where a bid has been misunderstood or at least had the potential to be misunderstood.

I've not refreshed myself on the full SAYC that seems to be common online (it's on my to-do list, but just hasn't happened yet). But, here are my suggestions. I think they're fairly generic, for starters, but of course we can refine these as we get more experience.

- Five card majors to open in a major suit
- 15-17 to open one no-trump (plus the standard balanced hand, stoppers, etc.)
- 20-21 to open two no-trump
- Strong 2 Clubs, weak (preemptive) for other openings at the two level
- Stayman
- Gerber

Does anybody disagree with these? Are there any we should add? Also, do we need to have an agreed-upon system to count points (points for short suits vs. points for long ones, how "covered" do the low honors have to be to count, etc), or is that too nitpicky?

I hope I'm not scaring away people who may be interested in learning the game with these conventions! The nice thing is that it's fairly easy to follow along and at least play even if you are just learning. It's mastery of the game (like so many other games) that takes a lifetime.

-Griselda

[T-hawk]

To that list, I might add a couple more generic conventions:

- Blackwood
- Ace-showing cue-bids (although I should refresh myself on the conventions for those)

Sorry that I haven't been able to make it the last couple weeks. I expect to be available this Friday, though, hope to see some of you guys on then.

[Charis]

Hi guys!

I've done a ton of reading along these lines recently, a combination of offline and online
info. By far the best SAYC page I've seen (which comes in PDF form) may be found at:

http://www.annam.co.uk/sayc.htm

Here are the key elements in SAYC, though I'll break them down by 'difficulty'/'popularity' level:

BASIC -- the ones you mentioned in an above post
- 5 card majors for the opening
- 1NT for 15-17, 1 suit and rebid 2NT = 18-19, 2NT opening = 21-22, 2C then 2NT rebid = 23-24, 3NT=25-27
- Stayman convention to response to a 1NT opening
- Blackwood convention
- Takeout doubles
- Weak Two opening bids with 2C as the strong opening

BASIC-INTERMEDIATE
- Negative doubles
- Jacoby Transfers in the majors (*very* common and very useful)
- Jacoby 2NT response to a 1-major opening (very useful)
- Limit raises (1H-3H as 10-12 pts, invitational. This goes along with the use of Jacoby 2NT for 13+)
- Michaels Cuebid
- Unusual 2NT

INTERMEDIATE
- Cuebid after overcall as a limit raise (so 1H-1S-3S is now preemptive, not a limit raise of 10-12)
- Quantitative 4NT
- Gerber
- DOPI
- Inverted Minors
- Fourth suit forcing

INTERMEDIATE-ADVANCED (not part of SAYC but the next ones that folks add. Don't worry about these now!
- DONT
- Drury (or Reversed Drury)
- Lebensohl
- New Minor Forcing
- Roman Key card Blackwood
- Texas Transfers

A more basic link for evaluating a hand and basic bidding, plus the easiest of the items above, is:
http://www.rpbridge.net/bgtc.htm Another good link in this category is:
http://www.math.cornell.edu/~belk/bridge.htm

There's really nothing 'Advanced' in SAYC, and the list of other toys not included in the above
is vast. The nice thing is that the conventions and techniques listed above work very well *togehter*
and the chance that a non-newbie online bridge player will know them is extremely high.
If not all the above are familiar (much probably isn't) - the key is to add one or two things at a time
and get comfortable with them and "KISS". We can dial down/up to whatever level folks are comfortable with. Pete, you mentioned wanting to get back into Precision. *If* I can continue to find time for this (which I want to but have had a bad record in the past few weeks), that's something I would be interested in. (I should mention the most popular system of that type, a strong 1C, is the Polish Club rather than Precision, but I think the latter has merit from ease of learning and use. The downside to Precision these days is how wildly aggressive the opponents have gotten in interfering after a strong 1C opening. An online link to a modern interpretation of precision with a TON of notes is Key Lime Precision: http://www.geocities.com/keylimeprecision/ I still have an OLD paperback by Wei on Simplified Precision :P )

BTW, if there is interest I've put together a pretty lengthy overview of SAYC + a few other conventions in a formatted word doc, and could share that. It's more a table summarizing bids and meaning with responses, not explanations per se, so Anna's page above is better for understaning such conventions. I just wanted to have the actual bids in one place for my own review.

Hoping Mrs C has no plans tonight...
Charis

[Pete]

Hi,

First things first: it looks like both Magi and I will be able to play tonight, say 8:30 PDT. Hope you can make it. We had four last week and we all had fun.

I'd be interested in the word doc you put together. No real hurry, but when you get a chance please send me a copy.

I think precision may have to be put off for a while. Neither Magi nor I have much time for studying it right now, and it would work better if either we kept permanent partners or all of us started using it. Since the "rotating" partnerships we have now are so ideally suited for the casual social games we're playing, I don't think that that would be a good solution. And since we might have to go to the B/I club to get a full table, I don't think a system that many (most) of them don't use would be a good idea.

Of course, it is always possible to use two systems, but keeping track of that when we're playing so little might be hard -- and might end up with us playing two systems badly instead of one at a mediocre level

I think that staying with the SAYC is probably best, and for now, I'd just as soon keep it at what you've labeled "BASIC" with possibly the Jacoby Transfer added. However if the consensus is that we need to add more right away, I'll try to cram a refresher in the next week.

On a related note, has anyone tried the bidding practice utility at BBO? That may be a nice way to get up to speed without taking up everyone's time. Getting two together at random moments might well prove a lot easier.

--Pete

[Pete]

. . . if anyone wants to join.

And a reminder for those in more civilized places: We're on Daylight (aka Summer) time now, so it might look an hour early, but it isn't. Or, rather it is, but so what?

--Pete

[T-hawk]

I should be able to make it this Friday, although it will likely be on the late side, likely not until around midnight Eastern. Next week I'll be otherwise occupied.

We've only had, I think, 5 or 6 different RBers come by on various Fridays to play. If any lurkers have considered joining in, please do. Don't worry at all about how bad or rusty you might be. Here's a direct download link to the Bridge Base Online software, so you don't have to navigate their slightly-confusing site:

ftp://www.bridgebase.com/bbo_setup.exe

[Pete]

. . . unless four show, and then we'll be in a game.

--Pete