[SPOILERS] Retep won't change his tittle again

[retep]

Just people don't think the worse of me i just clarify.

If you are wondering why in the end I didn't look for a replacement is because Seven is rushing with impis the game is over. Since I can't defend losing a turn will not change anything. I just pillage the improvements and be gone. Oh well such is life.

[retep]

I die!

Well no, I mean I lost, I have been busy these days so I going to stay unspoiled for a while until I have time to make my final though about this game, after that I'll go to read the trashing in the lurker thread, I'm sure it would be fun.

[retep]

Ok with part of the holidays past I should write something before I forget.
I was thinking how this morning, and I occur to me that could just do it like a faq, so lets start.

Lets cut the crap, why you move your capital? Are you in drugs?


Well no I don't Yes, in hindsight moving was probably a mistake, but you have to give some slack here. Arguments can be made about why moving was a bad idea, how my capital was worse than before or not, but it was impossible for me in turn 0 to know that moving would make me lose the game. And even moving wouldn't have lost me the game if it wasn't for a set of conditions than happen to make a rush against me posible.

What conditions are those?

Well:
1.Seven pick Zulu
2.Seven have copper in his capital radius.
3. I don't have cooper
4. Seven is eight tiles away.
5. My starting techs
6. Aggressive trait

All these combined make defending unrealistic.

Why? You could research archery and defend, why you didn't do that?
Is not as easy as that.
I start with fishing/mining which means that going BW was pretty much obligatory, around turn 6 I meet seven so continuing researching BW was the right decision. I finish BW in turn 14. I see that I didn't have cooper. At that momment I could either research hunting-archery which are 14 turns, that would mean that I would finish researching agriculture in turn 37. Did someone seriously believe that that was the right decision? No food techs until turn 37? No.
Obviously you have to take into consideration that if I research archery then Seven is not going to rush me at all which means that I would have lost the game right there.

Now If I research agriculture after BW then I finish agriculture in turn 23 (14 BW + 1 anarchy + 8 agri) then researching archery is another 14 turn which means I finish archery in turn 37 and get my first archer in turn 38, since I lost in turn 37 well you can see how that won't be fast enough, plus to whip the archer I would have to not whip a warrior which means that I would have lost a turn sooner.

So how exactly I was suppose to defend?

Well you did miss a turn, it would have been better to let other people to play instead of doing that...
Oh but I miss the turn on purpose. See Seven from the very beginning didn't think of the other players as equals, he gives himself a handicap, yeah I know he probably rationalize that as "having fun" but is just been pedantic to the other players, if you are going to play you have to play your best from start not just start of the game but the picking part.
Anyway I also know that Seven is very good a micro so how can I exploit these?
Well I make a bet. First I miss my turn but in game my city is already building a warrior and the worker is chopping so the only thing I miss is moving the scout, then I post that I don't care in the tech thread this would give me high chances that seven would micro his capital to get a perfect score in food and hammers instead of prioritizing the rush which could buy me a turn. ANd I'm 90% sure I succeed if the RNG would have been on my side this could actually help to survive.
So at the cost of the other players hating me a little bit more I got a tiny chance of survival.
Yes a turn is not much and in the end it didn't help but is something.

Then why you wanted to retire of the game early? Why you didn't do it? Is it true you piss your pants when you see that Seven was your neighbor?
Actually I was very happy to face seven, the first though on my mind was "I can finally see how good I am at these game" yet sadly the conditions wasn't the ideal.
I want to retire because this wasn't the type of game that I wanted to play from the start. I didn't retire because after I made that post I become clears to me that seven was rushing and that I wasn't going to survive unless the RNG save me, so there was no point in give to someone else a game that was doom already.

What you mean this wasn't the game you wanted to play?
I want a normal, simple BTS game to entertain myself making plans, trying to figure out what other were doing yet I didn't expect this game. Now I'm not bashing at Serdoa for the map, the map could indeed been very balanced and fun for the other but not for me. Why? Well for example me and Seven share and island, we could have start at equidistantes (I have no idea how you said this in english) points and fight for the island instead Seven start with less space to expand and I with a loooot of free space this plus the cooper at start make for new strategies ideas yes, this could changes the early metagame by giving you more options of what to do but then I didn't want to be part of an experiment to see if the early metagame can have more options, I just wanted to play a normal semi balanced game. That is why I wanted someone to replace me.
Spoilers PB13

After PB13 map, you know the one that looks like is made for the lurkers enjoyment , I was hopping a map make for the players enjoyment.

Are you sure, you are not making this stuff up?
You got me, I invented this questions.

I mean you didn't update your thread...
Why should I use my time to amuse the lurkers when I'm not having any fun with the game?

How can I contact you?
I'm sure we will see in hell

[novice]

Thanks for anticipating and competently answering our questions.

I hope to see you playing again here at RB in a game set up better for your enjoyment.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

[Catwalk]

Ok with part of the holidays past I should write something before I forget.
I was thinking how this morning, and I occur to me that could just do it like a faq, so lets start.

Lets cut the crap, why you move your capital? Are you in drugs?


Well no I don't Yes, in hindsight moving was probably a mistake, but you have to give some slack here. Arguments can be made about why moving was a bad idea, how my capital was worse than before or not, but it was impossible for me in turn 0 to know that moving would make me lose the game. And even moving wouldn't have lost me the game if it wasn't for a set of conditions than happen to make a rush against me posible.

I think the capital move was bad given what you could see, but there was definitely no way to predict that it would be this bad. If you'd had copper, you'd have survived. It's not reasonable for you to be able to guess where the copper was. So yeah, I agree. I do think settling 1E would have been fine, though. You had Fishing to start you off with a 3/0/3 tile, you had 6/0/0 food and you had an early luxury. Unimpressive, but I think you underestimated this site considerably.

What conditions are those?

Well:
1.Seven pick Zulu
2.Seven have copper in his capital radius.
3. I don't have cooper
4. Seven is eight tiles away.
5. My starting techs
6. Aggressive trait

All these combined make defending unrealistic.

His capital was 10 tiles away

Why? You could research archery and defend, why you didn't do that?
Is not as easy as that.
I start with fishing/mining which means that going BW was pretty much obligatory, around turn 6 I meet seven so continuing researching BW was the right decision. I finish BW in turn 14. I see that I didn't have cooper. At that momment I could either research hunting-archery which are 14 turns, that would mean that I would finish researching agriculture in turn 37. Did someone seriously believe that that was the right decision? No food techs until turn 37? No.
Obviously you have to take into consideration that if I research archery then Seven is not going to rush me at all which means that I would have lost the game right there.

That's a tricky one indeed. Should you play for the best expected outcome or to have a chance of winning? Archery was arguably the best expected outcome, as you'd seen his scout and probably had a strong suspicion that he'd be in the mood for early shenanigans. The expected outcome from Archery was crappy, however. It's a common situation, should you go for best (realistic) optimal outcome or best expected outcome? Most players go for best realistic optimal outcome, especially early on, as they don't want to spend half a year on a game where they're behind from the start. Better to take a gamble on catching up, if that costs a loss then so be it.

Now If I research agriculture after BW then I finish agriculture in turn 23 (14 BW + 1 anarchy + 8 agri) then researching archery is another 14 turn which means I finish archery in turn 37 and get my first archer in turn 38, since I lost in turn 37 well you can see how that won't be fast enough, plus to whip the archer I would have to not whip a warrior which means that I would have lost a turn sooner.

I think you have your archery math a little wrong, won't it be a few turns sooner? 120 base cost for BW, 40 + 60 for Hunting + Archery. Did you keep tabs on Seven's graphs, btw? I noticed that you had your scout in his city, so you'd be able to know a good deal about what he was doing and when.

Well you did miss a turn, it would have been better to let other people to play instead of doing that...
Oh but I miss the turn on purpose. See Seven from the very beginning didn't think of the other players as equals, he gives himself a handicap, yeah I know he probably rationalize that as "having fun" but is just been pedantic to the other players, if you are going to play you have to play your best from start not just start of the game but the picking part.
Anyway I also know that Seven is very good a micro so how can I exploit these?
Well I make a bet. First I miss my turn but in game my city is already building a warrior and the worker is chopping so the only thing I miss is moving the scout, then I post that I don't care in the tech thread this would give me high chances that seven would micro his capital to get a perfect score in food and hammers instead of prioritizing the rush which could buy me a turn. ANd I'm 90% sure I succeed if the RNG would have been on my side this could actually help to survive.
So at the cost of the other players hating me a little bit more I got a tiny chance of survival.
Yes a turn is not much and in the end it didn't help but is something.

I understand your reasoning here and it could have helped slightly (I think it'd make him more likely to rush you, though) but I'd personally find it to be very poor form to let the timer run down on purpose. I know the game has had terrible speed since the start, but even so it's not something I would ever do.

What you mean this wasn't the game you wanted to play?
I want a normal, simple BTS game to entertain myself making plans, trying to figure out what other were doing yet I didn't expect this game. Now I'm not bashing at Serdoa for the map, the map could indeed been very balanced and fun for the other but not for me. Why? Well for example me and Seven share and island, we could have start at equidistantes (I have no idea how you said this in english) points and fight for the island instead Seven start with less space to expand and I with a loooot of free space this plus the cooper at start make for new strategies ideas yes, this could changes the early metagame by giving you more options of what to do but then I didn't want to be part of an experiment to see if the early metagame can have more options, I just wanted to play a normal semi balanced game. That is why I wanted someone to replace me.

I do understand this much, it sucks to be playing a game that's markedly different from what you were anticipating.

Don't sweat it retep, it's easy to pass harsh judgement as a lurker when you have full information Hope you're having fun with your other games.

[Serdoa]

Why? You could research archery and defend, why you didn't do that?
Is not as easy as that.
I start with fishing/mining which means that going BW was pretty much obligatory, around turn 6 I meet seven so continuing researching BW was the right decision. I finish BW in turn 14. I see that I didn't have cooper. At that momment I could either research hunting-archery which are 14 turns, that would mean that I would finish researching agriculture in turn 37. Did someone seriously believe that that was the right decision? No food techs until turn 37? No.
Obviously you have to take into consideration that if I research archery then Seven is not going to rush me at all which means that I would have lost the game right there.

Now If I research agriculture after BW then I finish agriculture in turn 23 (14 BW + 1 anarchy + 8 agri) then researching archery is another 14 turn which means I finish archery in turn 37 and get my first archer in turn 38, since I lost in turn 37 well you can see how that won't be fast enough, plus to whip the archer I would have to not whip a warrior which means that I would have lost a turn sooner.

So how exactly I was suppose to defend?

I made a short sim of your start - the one you moved to. That's non-optimized and I'm not sure it is the best solution by a long stretch but you could have started worker first while researching Agri -> BW. Worker finishes EOT15, go for workboat next, move worker to farm corn then onto PH Forest and wait a turn. BW comes in on that waiting turn. Start chopping and revolt. Chop finishes T25 which finishes the workboat. Warrior next obviously. T33 the first Impi arrives at a visible spot for you but by the demos you should know already that they are coming since several turns. Given their copper location (which you knew as well) and that you had no copper yourself I think going for Archery would be the best choice. Archery would come in EOT34. One turn before their Impi first can hit you. Next turn a chop would finish, which would finish an Archer (he can't move to tiles to prevent that). And that is also without whipping anything. At that point you also would have 3 warriors. So he could kill one warrior but at that point an Archer would finish, leaving you with 1 Archer, 2 Warriors at worst. And the whip potential of a 5 pop capital. Yes, you'd trash yourself, but you could probably get a few more Archers and Warriors. And if you'd killed his first Impi, chances are that he would have to stop his aggression. Plus I am sure this plan can be refined much more, but I merely wanted to show that there were possibilities + one has always to account for what knowledge you really had at any point.

And please don't understand that as being negative towards you. I'm sure you did what you felt was best and I'd just like to show you some other ways to look at it.

What you mean this wasn't the game you wanted to play?
I want a normal, simple BTS game to entertain myself making plans, trying to figure out what other were doing yet I didn't expect this game. Now I'm not bashing at Serdoa for the map, the map could indeed been very balanced and fun for the other but not for me. Why? Well for example me and Seven share and island, we could have start at equidistantes (I have no idea how you said this in english) points and fight for the island instead Seven start with less space to expand and I with a loooot of free space this plus the cooper at start make for new strategies ideas yes, this could changes the early metagame by giving you more options of what to do but then I didn't want to be part of an experiment to see if the early metagame can have more options, I just wanted to play a normal semi balanced game. That is why I wanted someone to replace me.

Just want to point out: The map was in no way an experiment or a try to force changes to the early metagame. I didn't even expect it to play out much differently than normally, merely that it would have some impact due to the relative closeness of starting position. But I imagined it just spicing up the early game a little bit with everyone having to not play a total farmers gambit with just 1 warrior for 3 cities. Due to the vastness of the land in general I actually expected most players to put a little emphasis on their border, giving them something to think about, while expanding in the open areas.

Or shorter: I didn't realize the potential issue of copper in the BFC because I didn't expect anyone to move away from it, so everyone in my mind had it.

[SevenSpirits]

Well you did miss a turn, it would have been better to let other people to play instead of doing that...
Oh but I miss the turn on purpose. See Seven from the very beginning didn't think of the other players as equals, he gives himself a handicap, yeah I know he probably rationalize that as "having fun" but is just been pedantic to the other players, if you are going to play you have to play your best from start not just start of the game but the picking part.
Anyway I also know that Seven is very good a micro so how can I exploit these?
Well I make a bet. First I miss my turn but in game my city is already building a warrior and the worker is chopping so the only thing I miss is moving the scout, then I post that I don't care in the tech thread this would give me high chances that seven would micro his capital to get a perfect score in food and hammers instead of prioritizing the rush which could buy me a turn. ANd I'm 90% sure I succeed if the RNG would have been on my side this could actually help to survive.
So at the cost of the other players hating me a little bit more I got a tiny chance of survival.
Yes a turn is not much and in the end it didn't help but is something.

You know, you got very unlucky with the map's copper placement, and I defended all your actions and think you put up a good fight. But this I have no respect for. When we say no clock games it's stuff like this. Signing up for a game you're agreeing to play your turns in a reasonably timely manner. People will cut you a lot of slack for real life circumstances and by intentionally not playing the turn for in game advantage you're betraying this trust. It's disrespectful to everyone who has actual real life stuff going on and it sure would suck for them if their actions get scrutinized and suspected of being a lie. But I guess you thought this was OK. So, good job trying extra hard to survive I guess.