Imperium 40 Opens Monday!

[RefSteel]

As mentioned in another thread, I'm kinda sorta back! (Ouch. Note to self: Please stop mentioning that "b" word.) If there's interest in a new Imperium, I'd be happy to get one started. (I even have a weird map mostly-built, though it needs some final tweaking, which might take an hour or two or might take weeks.)

Moreover, if so, as always, I would be delighted to see other players come up with Imperium games. If you have been reluctant to do so, let me try to convince you! All you have to do is save your game in 2300 when you start a regular single-player game of Orion, keep that save intact, and send it to me if the game turns out to be especially fun and interesting! Suggesting a variant or scenario would be great, but isn't necessary.

- "But I don't keep my starting save files!" Why not though? It's easy. Just save in a different slot before you make your first move than you will through the rest of the game.

- "But I don't know a good variant!" We can certainly play an Imperium without variant rules. They're meant to liven up the game, not to replace normal gameplay permanently. So send something in anyway! (If after playing through the map, you think, "This would have been even more fun if I'd done it without building missile bases!" or something, we can also tack on a variant with which you didn't originally play.)

- "But I don't always follow RB's exploit rules when I'm playing solo games!" You totally should, by the way. It makes the game more fun and challenging (in my opinion). But even if you don't, you can still submit a game. Your report for that Imperium (if you post one) would be a Sponsor's Shadow anyway, and the only penalty for breaking the exploit rules is ... turning it into a shadow game.

- "But what if other people hate it?" Don't worry. It won't be the worst Imperium ever, nor the worst-atteneded. (One Imperium was played out and reported by zero people, including the sponsor -- and the sponsor was me!) I do my best, but it's hard to know in advance just how a game will play out, as we're all aware.

- "But if it's terrible, people will blame me!" First of all, no they won't. I'll just be grateful for your help, and I'll still be responsible for selecting it, so the right thing for everyone else to do will be to blame me. If you really are worried about this, we've had Imperia with anonymous sponsors or co-sponsors before. If you want, we can have one again!

- "But nobody even responded to this thread; there's obviously no interest in another Imperium anyway!" Well, if that's the case, I have no counter-argument, but we'll see!

[Ianus]

I am very very interested! I've enjoyed playing through some of the old Imperia, and actually having to put together a report sounds great!
A question on designing Imperium games: are we talking heavily edited maps or just maps with interesting starting positions, possibly coupled with variant rules? I was thinking about designing a map where every star was inside a nebula, but then I noticed that Imperium 26 had already forbidden Shield research, so my idea seems like doubling up, or else just would just make things easier since the AI would be on a more equal footing.
Anyway, I always enjoy games with interesting starts (I just rolled a map, medium, hard, Humans) where all stars were 4 parsecs away, and range 4 wasn't in the tree. Talk about a slow start!
Anyway anyway, I hope there will be interest in a fun Imperium game! I want to play!

[Catwalk]

What the hell, I'll see if I can come up with a map and a ruleset. Will probably be heavily based on gameplay balance and no RP at all. Will also likely be extremely difficult How about scoring being based on who survives the longest? And if anyone actually wins, they will all be tied for first place.

[Catwalk]

How's this for a sadistic variant:

Race: Darloks
Opponents: Five
Map size: Large
Difficulty: Impossible!

1) Must trigger Final War by 2450
Reasoning: I've always loved the Final War mechanic, it helps put some pressure at a time when you're usually rolling the AI due to better ability to process increasingly complex information.
2) Must capture Orion by 2500, else you lose
Reasoning: I also love Orion, and I thought it'd be cool to have a critical tactical objective to achieve.
Alternative: If multiple players beat the map, whoever took Orion first wins.
3) May not do any diplomacy other than trade agreements
Reasoning: It's too easy to abuse the AI with diplomacy. I also like capturing or stealing technology, more challenging than getting it for stuff the AI often doesn't need anyway.
4) Each colony ship you produce must have a battle computer or force field one level higher than the previous one
Reasoning: I like the concept of miniaturization, but I don't like how colony ships become so cheap their cost is irrelevant. This also makes expansion plans a little more complex as it's not just about going all Planetology with a bit of Propulsion.
5) Unarmed ships may not patrol enemy planets
Reasoning: Patrolling with scouts is a no-brainer, this way you have to either invest in slightly more expensive fighters with shorter range or much more expensive long-range frigates if you want to hold key systems.
6) 2-shot missile launchers are not allowed
Reasoning: I think these are too powerful, especially with hit'n'run tactics. Very easy way to whittle down missile bases.
7) We start with a healthy helping of technology:
- Battle Scanner
- Robotics III
- IIT9
- Duralloy Armour
- Planetary Shield V
- Personal Deflector Shield
- Barren Colonization
- Tundra Colonization
- Hydrogen Fuel Cells
- Intertial Stabilizer
- Gatling Laser
- Anti-missile rockets
Reasoning: The rules are cruel enough already, this might give us a fighting chance. IRC3 is more of a curse (fully intended to slow down factory production), but we have the technology to make very decent warships straight off the bat from miniaturization bonuses alone. Researching a few cheap techs for additional options can make early conquests a very feasible option.

Planning on rolling up a completely random map for this, I think it will work reasonably well with anything the RNG can throw at us. If anyone wants to suggest changes to the ruleset (or suggest scrapping it altogether ), speak up!

[RefSteel]

How's this for a sadistic variant:

I love the enthusiasm! My instinct is that 6 variants plus a modified start is too much for one Imperium though. Simple is good, and two simple variant rules (maybe three if they're thematically related enough to be easy to remember together) is probably about the limit. By "simple" variants, I in part mean rules that don't require a lot of book-keeping; even "newly-built Colships must mount your most advance shield and computer" could be annoying to track ("Wait, oh no, did I land a new shield tech since I last designed this thing?") but keeping notes on what shield or computer each colship used in preparation for designing the next one is likely to be immersion-breaking and unfun for most players.

I'd be happy to write a "roleplaying" scenario up for a game with (say) the first two variants on the list however.

I'd be inclined to say in that case that taking Orion would constitute a win so that the player needn't also finish the business of assimilating an entire large galaxy.

[RefSteel]

I am very very interested! I've enjoyed playing through some of the old Imperia, and actually having to put together a report sounds great!

I'm glad to hear it! Plus, as mentioned in another thread, any shadow report for an old Imperium that you just recently played would be very welcome!

A question on designing Imperium games: are we talking heavily edited maps or just maps with interesting starting positions, possibly coupled with variant rules?

Either or both!

I think you're right that an all-nebula map would be on the easy side; the AI has no notion of how to defend in one, and would in fact merrily research shield tech and put heavy shields on its ships (invisible to us since they would never work). An interesting alternative, if the map could be edited so that there's a 1:1 relationship between stars that look like they're in a nebula and stars that actually are -- and probably to increase the number or size of nebulae around the galaxy -- would be to only permit us to colonize or invade nebula worlds....

@catwalk: I just looked more closely at your list of free techs. If you'd left out RC3 and Planetary 5, I would say there are players around here who could win even moderately-friendly maps with that variant before 2450. With them though, especially RC3 ... I think our snail's-pace factory construction and the near-impossibility of completing an early missile base anywhere would be bigger challenges than all six other variant rules combined.

[Catwalk]

I agree with you that factory construction would be a challenge. I think if I make sure that IER and IT+10 are in the tech tree, the start can be tided over. Keep in mind that we'll have super cheap missile bases, as all our techs make them cheaper and none of them make them more expensive. Granted, you'd need to put up the planetary shield but that also gives you a huge advantage. Should I take that one away, though? The point is to encourage early warfare, and we'd be quite well set for that. I suggested Large instead of Medium or Small just to make sure it wouldn't be too much of an advantage.

There'd be very little book keeping involved with the colony ship thing, and none at all with the other one:
Final War looming - just a matter of not wasting time.
Orion objective - optional, added challenge for good players.
Diplomacy - easy, just don't do it
Colony ship - it's quite easy to remember how many colony ships you've built, just put a number in the design name of each one.
Missiles - also very easy to remember.
Starting techs - changes your playing style, but you're free to play as you like with them.

I agree that heavy variants can be difficult to remember, but I don't think this one is. And we disagree a bit on the whole RP vs hardcore strategy objectives Ianus, what do you say?

[Ianus]

Hmm, let me think about this...

1) Must trigger Final War by 2450
>I agree about putting pressure on the player. Depends on the map and how our expansion goes with rule 4 (see below).

2) Must capture Orion by 2500, else you lose
>I really like this one! I usually ignore Orion unless I am chasing an extermination victory and have really advanced tech, so I think that forcing a confrontation at Orion is an interesting variant. The only concern would be if Orion winds up on the far edge of the galaxy or otherwise out of range.

3) May not do any diplomacy other than trade agreements
>I assume that this means we must reject any offered treaties? I think I favor tossing this one, since as the Darlocks we would be on the ropes diplomatically anyway.

4) Each colony ship you produce must have a battle computer or force field one level higher than the previous one
>Is this each SHIP or each ship DESIGN? Because if it is each ship this will effectively kill expansion, which on a large map will kill us, especially coupled with rules 1 and 2. If it is every design I'm not sure I see the point, other than to slightly slow down acquisition of more hostile worlds. I tend to design only three or four different colony ships in a game (depending on engines, etc) so I don't think this would be a major factor in this case.

5) Unarmed ships may not patrol enemy planets
>I assume by enemy planets you mean any planet we do not own. This seems like a good primary mechanic, designed to slow down or at least challenge our expansion, and as such seems like it would be a primary variant even without all of the other rules (I have in my mind that an Imperium with a rule like this was played some time ago, but I can't remember which one off the top of my head. The Meklars who watched too many soap operas?) I think that this rule coupled with the time constraints would make for a very challenging game, especially on Impossible. Could be exciting or could be an extinction event.

6) 2-shot missile launchers are not allowed
>I don't care about this one as I usually avoid missile boats in favor of beam weapons, and hit and run isn't my style.

7) We start with a healthy helping of technology:
- Battle Scanner
- Robotics III
- IIT9
- Duralloy Armour
- Planetary Shield V
- Personal Deflector Shield
- Barren Colonization
- Tundra Colonization
- Hydrogen Fuel Cells
- Intertial Stabilizer
- Gatling Laser
- Anti-missile rockets
>This would make for an interesting game. I'm on the fence about IRC3.

Overall, I think this sounds like a very challenging game. Early Final War on a large map sounds like a recipe for disaster, especially depending on who our opponents are. Large Psilons spreading their tech around seems like game over to me.

[Catwalk]

It is every colony ship. As an example, your fourth colony ship would require shield II and BC II. Or shield I and BC III. This does indeed hamper expansion, but it doesn't kill it. Furthermore, it encourages us to plan our game around capturing newly settled worlds. I see that I worded it wrong above, fixing that.

How about unbanning NAPs as well? Still no tech trading, no bribes, no threats, no alliances and no suggestions that the AIs go fight each other. And peace offers also allowed, of course. The entire variant is about promoting early war for profit, the game tends to have a strong builder incentive for the longest time.

Maybe remove the first point and make scoring a matter of when Orion is captured and when victory is assured? Idea:
VP = Turns to capture Orion * 2 + turns to exterminate all opposition.

So if it takes you 120 turns to take Orion and 160 turns to win, your VP is 400. Obviously you'd want your score as low as possible. Maybe with the twist that if you trigger Final War, that counts as your victory turn (if you do indeed win). This encourages you to take on your enemies as soon as possible, rather than playing it safe and mopping up the riff raf.

[WhiteMage]

Hey guys,
I have played MOO1 since it came out with various self imposed extra rules. I recently tried the following simple ruleset for 1.40m:
1. Random galaxy size, impossible, 5 opponents, random race.
2. No cheat load. (You get no second chance. Whatever happens stays on record). No cheat of any kind (such as looking into save game files, watching your brother play then you play, etc. [needless to say]).
3. No transport. (ever)
[Rationale: transports are the main Achilles heel of the AI. I give up my planet to AI, then take it back and pump up my technology. No transport slows growth down, makes defense important, and it lowers micromanagement.]

It was much more fun than my earlier rules, but I still won 2 out of 2 games so far.

For my next game, I plan to add:
4. Disband scouts in 2300.
5. All future ship designs must have some weapon. (At least 1 nuclear bomb, 1 laser etc.)

Goal: Conquer galaxy ASAP (can't win by election).
Feel free to use exploits. Report what helped you and I can invent more rules to counter them. I always name new planets with the year I colonize, which is some evidence that it was colonized and not conquered as I am not aware of an in-game method to change planet name. I can upload my latest game if you are interested and that could become a tournament for you guys: Large human.

PS. Catwalk has lots of good ideas posted, but is too complex for a tournament and I agree that it may be a fun killer to track all of that in game. Too easy to forget and I assume it also has "no cheat load" rule although not stated. So I would hate to lose by forgetting to apply one of his many rules after investing days of work.