[Spoiler] RB Pitboss #2 - Shaka of Rome

[novice]

I couldn't (be bothered to) tell from your plans exactly which forests you are planning to chop, so remember that if you chop a forest outside your cultural borders it gives less hammers even if it's in your BFC.

Also, you should have a military escort for your workers as they will be wandering the wilderness near the barbarians/Koreans. I guess that warrior on a hill should suffice.

[spacemanmf]

I always think that it's best to revolt to Slavery while your first settler is on the move - that way you don't lose any production in your new city (or cities) and just one turn in your capital.

[Whosit]

I couldn't (be bothered to) tell from your plans exactly which forests you are planning to chop, so remember that if you chop a forest outside your cultural borders it gives less hammers even if it's in your BFC.

Also, you should have a military escort for your workers as they will be wandering the wilderness near the barbarians/Koreans. I guess that warrior on a hill should suffice.

All forests will be in my cultural borders by the time they are chopped. And, yes, I will rely on my Warriors on sentry to guard my Settler/Workers. I may move them into better defensive positions, too, but based on my tests, I'll have 2-tile vision in most directions, so nothing should surprise me.

I always think that it's best to revolt to Slavery while your first settler is on the move - that way you don't lose any production in your new city (or cities) and just one turn in your capital.

Probably a good rule of thumb, but in this case, to get everything on schedule, I cannot afford the turn of anarchy to delay my techs even by a turn. I should definitely revolt when my 3rd Settler is out, if not before.

Edit: Having played my turn, noticed something odd. Seoul's production (now size 3 and #4 city) has gone from 4 to 59. 59 hammers is what they had on turn 29. They just grew, so no whip was involved. Did they end up switching production on T29 so they could grow to size 3 now? I've been baffled a bit lately, especially since I saw nothing for T30 and T31. It seems very unlikely that they got two chops out all of a sudden, and that still wouldn't explain the 15 hammer increase that's left over. Guess I'll see what happens.

[Whosit]

The next reply from Korea in this ongoing "drama" of false friendship.

Dear Whosit,

I obvivously would prefer keeping original deal that you in practice suggested few turns ago. However I'm willing to negotiate. I would like to see our NAP to be prolonged until turn 120 and your city moved 1E. It would still claim the cows and would actually be better fit with your capital's BFC. This would allow us 2 cities between your capital and ours i.e.
1) 1W from the northern silk
2) Hill NW from the crab

If you provide us gold or some other happy resource, I would be very happy to offer silk to you.

Best regards plako and Broker33

So, to sum it up: "No, we'd rather not move our city, thank you."

I can't help but notice that 1E is not on a hill. At the moment, I'm stumped as to how I can keep up pretenses long enough to settle. As much as I regret it, and I do, I think the time is fast approaching when I must say "I am afraid that we cannot reach an agreement suitable to the Imperium. It seems that settlement must be determined by the one able to reach their place first." And, for obvious reasons, I still won't extend the NAP. I'll puzzle it out for the next few days.

[spacemanmf]

What about 1NE rather than 1E?

[Whosit]

What about 1NE rather than 1E?

I actually have considered that location, but I consider it secondary at best. That is where I plan to go if they somehow get their city down first. Basically, it lacks food sources in the first ring, which is a minus. It also has more hills than it can feed for a long, long time, which is also a minus to me. It does have Copper in the first ring, which is a plus, but I think that it is overall a weaker position, especially strategically (another minus). One of the reasons I like my original position is that it has command of a forward region that would make it easier for me to operate in. Moving back at all kind of sacrifices that initiative. Hopefully that all makes sense.

Edit: A thought occurs to me. If they DO try to settle to their east, that would mean they have no Copper nearby. Or that they are fools. I do not believe that latter, and I find the former hard to imagine, so I doubt that I will be challenged for this location.

[Whosit]

Here is an updated Plan. I will practice this a few more times to make sure I have it down, but I've learned that a few steps make a large difference. Still no room in the plan for Slavery revolt, maybe T60 after I learn IW? Failing to hit 0% research on T37 will result in a 1-turn delay for AH and everything else. City 2 working the forest hill at first also makes sure the Barracks is 3 turn w/ overflow, not 4. T46 is also important, to keep AH in on time. Anyway, here it is:

T32: 2W--Chop Chop
T33: chop finish, move forest
T35: Chop finish
T36: Myst < Wheel, Workers move silk forest
T37: Settler < Barracks, 0%; Move Warrior 1NW to cover Workers next turn.
T38: Wake Workers! Move to forest. 100%
T39: Settler to hill, workers chop
T40: Chop finish, worker to forest. Settle City (work forest grass hill!)
T41: Finish chop, move worker towards copper (road)
T42: Wheel < AH, Cap: Warrior < Worker (work lake extra commerce), 2nd City: Monument < Barracks
T43-45: Roading
T46: 2nd City, work commerce tile to get AH 1 turn, not 2
T47: AH, 2nd City work cows. Worker < Warrior
T47+: Focus commerce or hammers? Shave a few turns off of IW or Units?
T49: Pasture complete.
T50: Road cows. Cap: Warrior < Settler
T51: Move Warrior to Copper. Workers Road . . . 1S cattle.
T52: City 2: Scout < Scout. Start Copper Mine
T53: Copper Mine finished! 2nd City Work Mine.
T55: City 2: Scout < Axeman. Workers start mine (forest hill)
T57: Money out, IW in 3. 90%.
T59: Rearrange tiles to get IW in 1. Settler complete. Move? Build 4th Worker?
T60: Iron Working! Pottery (lovely, lovely cottages). Direct Settler to Iron if available. If not, settle at "original" location.

If Iron is available, get it ASAP and start cranking out the Praetorians! I should have a couple Axemen and a Spearman already from Regals Reach, and if I can build/whip a couple Praets, that should be enough to sneak in an early strike. I can get adjacent to Seoul in 5 turns at the fastest. They'll have time to whip out an Axeman, maybe 2. Plus 2-3 they may already have there (I'm trying to overestimate. I hope that I am not underestimating). So 2 Axe, 2 Praet, 1 Spear vs 3-5 Axe.

Match-ups. Combat I/City Raider I(?) Praetorian attacking . . . Combat I Axeman, 40% cultural defense, 25% fortification bonus . . . .
10.4 vs. 11.25. Hmmm, not the best odds. If Korea lacks archers (only melee), I'd do Shock instead, so my Praet would be 10.8. I would still lack odds, though. If Seoul fails to build a Barracks, I'll have an advantage, but I'm going to assume the worst. If it looks too tough to crack right away, I'll just pillage everything and let them attack me (or not) while I bring in reinforcements.

I'll keep an eye on Korean builds, though. If it does not appear that they've produced much military, I may take the time to prepare 3-4 Praetorians first. Anyway, that's the rough plan. It will surely change later, but I figure that it's best to have a direction.

As far as Domestic strategies go . . . .
I seem to plan to keep Imperial Center on Settler/Worker builds awhile. One thing that my plan lacks is building a mine on the grassland hill nearby. Mainly because I think that I need to work that lake tile for the commerce to get my techs in on time. I'll experiment a bit, but I don't think that that will change. Worker 3 will be building a road to the Gold, then towards the "original" site in preparation for settlement. If the settling location changes, so be it. If I'm very, very lucky, Iron will be in Imperial Center's BFC, but I highly doubt it. Either way, I think that 4 Workers for 3 cities wouldn't be too bad, especially since I plan to use a Worker pair as "combat engineers" and get roads set up to speed along my troops.

Yup. That's the plan.

[Swiss Pauli]

You'll want more than a handful of Praets to take out Korea because they'll be able to see your attack coming and plan accordingly. Bringing in a second wave is unlikely to work either because they'll be able to produce more defenders than you can attackers (as they don't have to move units to the front and you do).

[Whosit]

You'll want more than a handful of Praets to take out Korea because they'll be able to see your attack coming and plan accordingly. Bringing in a second wave is unlikely to work either because they'll be able to produce more defenders than you can attackers (as they don't have to move units to the front and you do).

Hmm, I see. Does that mean that it would be strategically unfeasible to try and pillage their capital into uselessness? I wouldn't be able to hit their seafood, though, so I suppose they could still manage to grow and whip relatively quickly. Yeah, I see your point. If I did my calculations right, Regals Reach at size 5 can produce 3-turn Praetorians. My capital will probably have to produce Axemen and/or Spearmen since it's unlikely to have nearly that much production. Not sure what City 3 will shape up to be.

Original location is going to be a Commerce city. If I find Iron elsewhere, I may have a second production city.

I suppose I could also see about retooling the capital for max production, but the small number of hills will make that trickier. I'll see what I can do on that front.

[Shoot the Moon]

By the way, are you taking Pre-req bonuses and bonuses for contacts with other civs who have the tech into your tech time? It is very possible that the tech times could go down if Korea researches a tech you want, or if you meet someone that has it. That could allow time to revolt to slavery.