WW 31 Game Thread PARANOIA

[Qgqqqqq]

Your description matches how I often play as village, at least as soon as I find someone I find worthy to get hunted. Can't really agree that that should suddenly be something that just scum is doing. And if it is not, if it is really only something that might be applied by scum or village, depending on the person playing, than you using it to put suspicion on catwalk makes you yourself suspicious.

The two tactics are close, but I feel they are very different in terms of the degree involved. Examining someone's tone in how he approaches a player in great depth is very different from taking a players posts that have little relevance to the game and using them to essentially bulk out the case without contributing to it.

Together with your aggressive tone (which I really had more than enough in our last games) I feel quite compelled to vote for you.

More importantly, I would like to apologise if this is how I have come across in this game, or indeed previously. I'm aware that I can appear aggressive and have been trying to avoid it for the last few games (as an aside, could you point out to me when I have been trying to change for a while and didn't think I was bad in WW 27).

I agree with this; Q does indeed have that play style as scum, which is impressive, but he shouldn't automatically assume that other scum play like that. I think it is quite widely agreed that in general, they don't. We don't know what Catwalk's scum style is, but I would expect him to have a much harder time building cases than usual, and I can't say that I've seen that here.

I agree that this is a concern, but while I wasn't sure how Catwalk plays his game, I still see that particular post was an attempt to bolster his case, and his responses have not satisfied me (especially his attempt to persuade me not to go after him because he was investigating, which rang all sorts of alarm bells).

Having looked up your posts to find out who you were voting, I'm not very happy with your vote (for Catwalk), and by extension mine (for Catwalk). Once again I find Azarius has managed to point out something significant amongst all the noise in the thread.

My problem was with the MJW vote and then dismissal, I didn't see anything particularly wrong with your posts (although I would definitely disagree that most posts have been fluff).

I'm leaning Catwalk currently, as a read-through of the first half of the thread makes him sound very odd to me. For example, his case on Old Harry is extremely grasping at straws, including as it does a criticism of Harry's opening joke post, and his interplay with Lewwyn is also rather odd. I don't think I've played a game with Catwalk before, however, so I'm hesitant to jump to conclusions, especially given how lynchable he looks. Another that I can't help but find scummy is Spacetyrantxenu, but I'm not sure why that is, possibly his meandering writing style is reading like scum fluff. I dunno sorry.

Q, you yourself were voting for Old Harry shortly after Catwalk did, you even cited his reason in your post. Why is his case now grasping at straws when you agreed with him before? (Which as Ichabod said is half of the game, especially so early in it imo.)

I didn't say there wasn't any merit to the case on Old Harry, my problem was in his grasping at straws in order to embellish it into a case. Old Harry's made a couple of weird posts, one of which caused me to vote him for a while, but the case that Catwalk made takes those as a foundation to a full-out case. On review it struck me as very much like what I often do as scum - choose a target who has made a few suspicious moves and then spin everything they've done against them, thus providing a lot of content and reads which help blend you in on a lynch. In particular, as I said above, the part about Old Harry's opening post, which is just ridiculously over-interpreted.

I really don't like how Q stuck to his Old Harry vote but then did a 180 and sided with the Catwalk voters once Ichabod's theory had caught on. I find his explanation unsatisfactory.

Qgqqqqq

I don't see myself as 'siding with' anyone, or for that matter doing a 180 and switching sides, for the simple reason that I don't see there as being sides here. As I said above, I found something suspicious in one of Old Harry's posts (his non-committal stance on MJW), this was explained and I moved on. Later I re-read the start of the day in greater detail and found his case much more reach-y then my initial skim had noticed. (I will admit that Ichabods post contributed to my re-evaluating whether Old Harry would be an easy case for scum to make).

I'm not a fan of either leading .candidate atm, Qgqqqqq is more suspicious than either. More to follow, just want to get the vote in now.

I would like to hear more about why this is, as I don't remember seeing any posts explaining this, especially as you seem very ready to repeat it.

We find ourselvse in similar situations then Azarius! Looks like the Zak train has also stalled out at the station. Like Melbourne's public transport network this week.

Let's see what happens if i vote Qgqqqq

Would you care to elaborate on this now that the rush is gone?

I'm going to regret this aren't I: Qgqqqqq

Same as the above two. I'm not begging that people change their opinions, but I would like an explanation now that there's time, especially as Azza's alignment makes this run seem suspicious,

If you thought you were going to be lynched, why didn't you vote Azza in self defense?

I thought this when I came online for the first time since my last post before the lynch, which was between Bricks two posts. I most definitely would have voted Azza had it been online, I'm no martyr
Since this seems an obvious plug for me as scum not being willing to vote for one of my partners, I'll address that here. Azza is a valuable player to a scum faction, not just because of his vote but also his role, which is especially powerful in this setup. Because of that, I would expect some sort of run in the last hour to protect him by whatever players were online. Because I know my alignment, this leads me to suspect those who made a run on me in the last 10 minutes, especially Old Harry and Gazglum. But even if you're assuming that there were two scum on the block, why would scum not attempt to push a third candidate (Catwalk or MJW) up beyond us, especially as it would consolidate on my (scum) inactive vote. There is a possibility no scum were online at the lynchtime, but this is rather unlikely and I would expect to see at least some movement on the non-Azza/I train if you think there were two scum on the block. As no such thing happened, I feel this points towards my innocence. (As I write this another possibility occurs to me, that scum attempted to bus scum-me over Azza in an attempt to simultaneously gain cred and save a valuable role. I know this isn't the case, but I don't really have any defence against it, apart from that it predicates on knowing a high proportion of the scum at this point in the game, which is very very unlikely.)

I still think Q's 180 was the closest thing to a smoking gun on day one. (I don't like the taste of humble pie.)

I've already written on this, but I really don't see what I did as as big as you're presuming, even if you don't accept my explanation. Certainly not enough to warrant being a 'smoking gun.' (I initially went to check post 180 to see what I had written that was so bad )

Good job guys. I'm really surprised it went down like this, I was sure that we'd go back to lynching newbies and lynch baits in a bigger game.

Some other things we seem to have forgotten Already a few people saying that the ones who voted for Azza are now cleared. I used to be naive like that, then I played mafia. I've been playing since WW25, and scum have sacrificed scum in the following games since I started playing: WW26, WW27, WW28, WW29. It'd surprise me more if there actually weren't any scum on Azza.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was some bussing going on in there, but I'd say those players jumping on Azza near the end receive a lot of cred, especially Lewwyn and Mr. Bot. You're also misrepresenting what happened in WW26.

Jowy, did the scum faction make a sacrifice on day 1 in either of those?

Two on D1, one on D2, one on D5. And that's just the scum who died Anyway it's just to illustrate the point that we shouldn't clear anyone just off the back of this. It's really no big deal for scum to sacrifice one of their own if one of their own gets in trouble. They're not worth saving, and in fact the scum could actually gain more than they lose if they get a good cover out of it. We've seen scum here in RB voting for each other and sacrificing each other nearly every game, if not in all of them. It'd simply be wrong to clear them. That said, we do have plenty of other targets so we can and likely will lynch non-Azza voters next, but I'd rather speak up now and correct the errors we're making than stay silent and get killed before I have a chance. I'm sure many of you agree with this thinking.

Indeed. I have to say though that the biggest thing is to never (or all but) clear players, but that doesn't mean not acknowledging that they have received some credit for the lynch. And as Rowain said, the strongman is a powerful role for them to lose, so I doubt they let him go with ease.

If you read between the lines, you noticed that I don't believe the bandwagon on Q was an attempt to save Azza. It's just too obvious and risky. There could be scum in there, or there might be none, but there's no way they just put all their eggs in that basket on D1.

I agree its doubtful that the entire jump on me was scum, but I wouldn't be surprised to see 2 in that number, and would be surprised if there wasn't at least one. Especially Old Harry (look he's switching sides again! ) as his vote seemed a lot like panicking scum pulling the trigger.

@Lewwyn and MJW

I'll I want to point out before the start of the next day is that I really don't like the following post:

I'm going to regret this aren't I: Qgqqqqq

It's also strange that novice didn't vote the same way as zak.

I agree about OldHarry.

Is the think you don't like the vote without justification, the last minute jump onto a bandwagon or the "I'm going to regret this"?

For the former I didn't really have time to get my thoughts together, but they were that I don't think Catwalk is scum and I thought Azza had just got caught up with the normal MJW-argument and was a null tell. Q was more suspicious than either and I'll probably vote him again if he's on the block tomorrow. The "I'm going to regret this" was because I've really got no idea if Q is scum or not and if he isn't and I jumped on at the last moment I'd spend even more time having to defend myself tomorrow...

Can you point me back to what made you vote Azza? I still can't really see it.

Again, why was I more suspicious?
Personally I find the last minute vote without any previous inclination towards suspecting me suspicious, especially as it helped to support a scum.

Sorry for the wall of text here.

Preview: Spacetyrant, while some consider it a goal to live to the end, the only goal required to 'win' is for your faction to achieve victory. Indeed, being nightkilled is often a victory in and of itself, as it shows the scum are scared enough of you to want you dead.

[Gazglum]

We find ourselvse in similar situations then Azarius! Looks like the Zak train has also stalled out at the station. Like Melbourne's public transport network this week.

Let's see what happens if i vote Qgqqqq

Would you care to elaborate on this now that the rush is gone?

Yeah, I'll go through my thoughts on the end of the day in more detail later but I'm at work now so I'll be brief. But basically - I didn't like the cases on MJW or Catwalk, leaving Azza and you as meaningful possibilities for my vote.

I thought Azza could be scum but Zak had just switched to him and I didn't trust Zak. Your careful line-by-line quoting reminded me of your last scum game and I thought you could psosibly be scum as well. But from previous experience I was expecting the lynch to end up a townie, so I figured we would get more information by seeing how people responded to a new wagon than if I voted Azza and pushed him up to what I assumed would be an unbeatable lead at that point, closing down any more movement.

[BRickAstley]

Deadline. I'll be a bit late on resolution. I've discovered that this time for deadline is actually really bad for me, so I might have to move it back a little more. Sorry.

[BRickAstley]

Ryan has been killed. He is down to 1 clone.
Lewwyn has been killed. He is down to 1 clone.

Happiness Officer: Happized Serdoa.
Loyalty Officer investigate result: positive.
Equipment Guy:
1) DocBot in a Box
2) Tactical Smartphone
3) Vari-Grenade

Hygiene Officer and Communications Officer did not execute their abilities in time for end of day, so today's punishment is that their rank shall be stripped and given to another.
New Hygiene Officer: Bobchillingworth
New Communications Officer: spacetyrantxenu

[BRickAstley]

Day 2 begins.

Also, I need to permanently move deadline back 2 hours (0200 GMT), or else I'll just not be able to make it. I'm really sorry I have to do it midgame, but it's better than late resolution. And end result is your day today is 30 minutes longer (wheee)

[Azarius]

Q, my reason for voting you is quoted a bit above you asking me for an explanation in your large post. The two most suspicious things that stood out to me yesterday were your swap on Old Harry and Gazglum's dirt throwing post. I was on Gaz, but noone seemed interested and it was getting close to day end, so when novice moved to you I saw an opportunity to try to get momentum on one of my preferred targets.

[MJW (ya that one)]

No one visited me. Screw you guys. Also, bonus duties doing something to me don't do anything for me.

I think the wolfs have two nightkills; otherwise this set-up would be insanely unfair.

Qgqqqqq I really don't like that megapost because it was obviously made someonewhere other than the main thread at a different time. He did not response to he latest posts at all. The other candidates, catwalk and myself, were already pushed so the wolfs had no choice but to push Qgqqqq to try and save azza.

[Azarius]

Also, of the two kills, my money is on Lewwyn for the wolf target.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Also, of the two kills, my money is on Lewwyn for the wolf target.

Maybe there is a serial killer?

[Azarius]

It could be, or it could be a vig, or something completely different. I'm just saying of the two, I think Leweyn is the more likely nightkill. Do you disagree?