WW 31 Game Thread PARANOIA

[zakalwe]

He's been saying that there are two scum factions, who'd know better than a member of one? A third scum faction would fit with the breadcrumbs clue, their numbers would be lower than normal scum and one death would be nearly as crippling as it'd be for a SK, so it'd make more sense to have some insurance.

Actually he's been saying the opposite. I do wonder why he thinks the commies would target him and Ryan. (Him I get, but not Ryan.)

[Lewwyn]

A game titled Paranoia.

[Lewwyn]

He's been saying that there are two scum factions, who'd know better than a member of one?

As Zak said I have not said there are two scum factions. In fact I have stated the opposite of this fact.

I have no idea why anyone would target Ryan. I'm not scum. All I said is I think there's one faction and they have two kills.

[Jowy]

He's been saying that there are two scum factions, who'd know better than a member of one?

As Zak said I have not said there are two scum factions. In fact I have stated the opposite of this fact.

I have no idea why anyone would target Ryan. I'm not scum. All I said is I think there's one faction and they have two kills.

Yeah my bad on that one.

Since you're around, can you explain these actions as town:

1) Leaving hints of your role
2) Fake-revealing just vigi at first

And I'd like to know if you think Ryan is lying. Ryan is saying that his only result was that you can kill, while you are claiming that you can both kill and protect. One of you seems to be lying about something.

[Serdoa]

On a more serious note - MJW, even if Brick made a mistake he should not compound it by confirming anybody's story. This is true as a matter of principle, and accusing Novice and Q based on that is way below the belt IMO.

Arguments like that piss me off as they really go against the integrity of the game.

Just to clarify that: I accuse novice not because of him not wanting BRick to tell us anything, but because of the way he reacted. Others just stated their opinion, some giving reason for it, but he got - imo - emotional. And as much as I'd like, I cannot forget something that happened just because it would be better for the integrity of the game. My view of novice will for this game be tainted by this reaction.

[novice]

Serdoa, nobody has accused MJW of lying about his result or in any way contradicted it. MJW quickly corrected it and nobody raised an eyebrow. Then Jowy said he'd vote MJW unless BRick bailed MJW out. My reaction was one of incredulity.

I was already voting MJW and you think I'd react with anger if Jowy joined my cause?

[Jowy]

Serdoa, nobody has accused MJW of lying about his result or in any way contradicted it. MJW quickly corrected it and nobody raised an eyebrow. Then Jowy said he'd vote MJW unless BRick bailed MJW out. My reaction was one of incredulity.

I was already voting MJW and you think I'd react with anger if Jowy joined my cause?

Nope, never said that I would vote MJW
I think he's town.
But I'll change my mind if that lie leads to something. If he is scum, it must, cause it'd be pretty stupid to lie for no reason.

[Ichabod]

All hail Fiend Computer!!!!

Freudian slip?

I planned to make this joke and I lost the deadline... I suck...

And trying to already now limit the lynch-options to 3 players (and ignoring one that several people voiced suspicion, also for his behaviour after the lynch) is not making me believe in you Rowain.

First things first. And those 3 are the top suspects. I see little value to go around and talk a lot about people who are suspicious but not that much as those 3. That's a good thing for later hunting. (and yes there are some more)

Please explain why they are the top suspects Rowain. It seems for me they are in your mind the top suspects because they

a) did not vote for Azza and
b) voted for Q

I already gave an explanation for this and if you argue that we should have voted Azza I can point to 11 other players you should question as well. I personally have a hard time seeing how it makes a difference if someone stuck all the time to his lone vote on someone who'd never get lynched or if he instead moved it to someone else who was in the running. Again, the only argument here is that the vote was moved to the "wrong" player, which isn't even certain by now that this player is not scum as well.

Don't get me wrong, I agree if someone isn't showing his villagerness tomorrow he should be up for lynch. But I hardly see how that has to specifically applied to 3 players you singled out for basically a non-reason. And that's why I think that you yourself are suspicious. To remind you, what you wrote was

"For me Gazglum, Serdoa and Old Harry (the last 3 Qg voters) have to really show their villagerness tomorrow. And we should lynch one of those 3."

That's not at all taking anything else into account, nor did you give a reason for why we 3 are the top suspects. I think you just try to stir the lynch in a certain direction that does not have much to do with actually hunting wolves but more with preventing anyone looking anywhere else.

Also in the same post the quote from above is you wrote:

"I find it interesting to see how the Qgqqqqq wagon started to roll as soon Azza took the lead but didn't move an inch when I was voting him previously."

Obviously you believe that Q is a villager and some wolves tried to save their buddy Azza by voting him up. But if that is what you believe, what's up with this part I quoted? Why do you point out that no one voted Q when you did but then did later? Later there was actually a reason given to vote for him, while you just posted his name in red. So that's already explained there. But thinking it further through, if you believe that Q is a villager, why should the wolves not have voted for him earlier? There is no connection between it not gaining traction earlier and gaining traction later. Except as I pointed out your lack of reasoning.

Also, why is it strange to talk a possibility of two scum on the line? If your Q-vote didn't gain traction till later it might as well be that scum didn't want to push neither him nor Azza and that both only gained traction when villagers being on 1-vote players moved from them because it got late and made no sense to stay on them.

Because catwalk was already sitting on 3 votes. and the Qg flurry began 8 minutes before Dl with Gazglum, you and Old Harry making the run. Interesting thing is that first you and then OH tied the race.

And I must say that I like your vote the least. First you voted Bob (who was on Azza together with MJW) then you tried to save Azza with your Qg run.

And what has catwalk to do with that? I don't see anything that makes me believe that he is scum. So far he has played exactly as I'm used to from him. Why should I vote for him? And the same is btw true for Azza. I actually did believe that he was his normal self. So, I go for the one I believe is a wolf.

Also, what's exactly so interesting in us tieing the race? Not that I was even aware of it because the tallies were screwed up all the time. But lets presume I knew, what is interesting about that? What is the point you want to make? Because for me it surely looks like you actually don't have a point to make but just mention what happened in a tone that implicates importance without mentioning it.

The same is true for your last sentence: Again, what you do is just telling everyone what happened. Something we all can easily see. That's like saying "He ate ... at the cantina.". And? What's the point? I did eat at the cantina. And it was good. Yes they have mice - but on a stick they are actually quite delicious.
[/quote]

This felt like a bit of a overreaction by Serdoa. It's obvious that the discussion on day 2 wouldn't just stick to those 3 players Rowain named. Not sure why it deserves a huge answer post.

I'll have to go to bed right now so I'll just point out to bob that a player cannot lose more than one life per night.

Night attacks can't take more than one life. But if a faction had *two* night attacks, I am assuming they could just take both lives within the same night, giving the same effect as an outright elimination.

Bob, did you even read my next post after the one you quoted? I'm not assuming the existence of a third team. There could be any number of reasons for a second kill, especially in a role madness game. It's certainly possible, but I don't think we have enough information now to know. All that quote means is that of the two kills, assuming the wolves did one, that it was Lewwyn.

No, I didn't read that post since I was writing my own before it was up. Like I said, I actually agree with your assumption, I just find the fact that your sentence assumed a single wolf kill without any explanation or analysis odd.


Anyway, there's plenty of time to seriously press the people who look most suspicious from the first day (especially Serdoa, Old Harry, Gazglum, Ryan and Novice- Qg having been the other major lynch candidate), so while I'm casting votes around I'd also like to hear from Ichabod, specifically why you voted for Catwalk early on and then just sort of faded away. I think you voted for him because he... was enthusiastic in attacking (now suspicious) Old Harry? That doesn't really seem like a great reason to me to keep your lynch vote on somebody for an entire day.

I missed the deadline and most of the second day of day 1 due to it being a saturday. I can't really say much about my Catwalk vote. I decided that OldHarry looked more like a newbie and, based on that, Catwalk seemed suspicious, due to latching onto a newbie post.

Bob the post you are looking for is this one.

In it Ichabod says OldHarry is a bit suspicious, but because he's new and seems genuine, anyone attacking him is more suspicious. He basically sets it up so attacks on OldHarry are scum attacks at lynchbait.

IMO you are correct it is a bit scummy by Ichabod.

I want to vote for Icabod too, but I want to keep some pressure on Serdoa. Though waiting for Serdoa to post is a bit useless because his defenses are so infuriating because he turns arguments around and just comes back at you like its your fault you can't understand him, when really you do. And then all the weaker players won't vote for him because he offers easier fare.

See above.

Nice catch.

Old Harry, I've been reading through your posts and not loving them. Your votes were:

Azarius (no strong reason)
Lewwyn (lack of content and 'too happy)

Azarius posted some more today - nothing groundbreaking, but nothing suspicious either, so since I'm not finding novice scummy or 3rd party (I think he just wasn't paying a lot of attention at the start) I'll go for Lewwyn, who is posting up a storm, but they mostly seem empty (pot meet kettle...) and is just a bit too happy, as if he's rolled scum and is really up for a game.

I don't like raising Lewwyn as a case late in the day, because there was no way it was suddenly going to start a dogpile on him at that hour. So it's avoiding a comment on the ones which have a real shot at hanging, though you did also say Bob deserves a bit of a scum tell.

And the reason for voting Lewwyn was weak - he's posting a lot, but not enough content, and too much happiness. Well, frankly Old Harry, I would like to think of myself as pretty darn happy, and you didn't jump on me! And I also accused Zak of lacking content, but Lewwyn had already voted Azza, Novice and you, and was commenting on other cases.

Then you jump to the Robot on post 221. That's another way of avoiding taking a stance on the lynch. It was an interesting idea, but several people pointed out that it seemed pretty clear the Robot was not a target for votes, and you kept your vote there even though you said,

I'm nearly convinced, I'll move my vote again when an official tally confirms your view.

But you didn't. At 3 minutes before deadline or so, you reiterate the robot vote.

I don't like the lynches on Catwalk or Azza and I'm sort-of stuck with my dumb robot-vote as that gives us information while the other candidates I like (Lewwyn, Sunrise) aren't going to hang.

That's the first time you mentioned Sunrise I think, and there's no mention of Q, though Q is suddenly in the running.

Then you vote Q.

Voting Azarius > Lewwyn > Robot, without strong reason, seems like a way to avoid doing real scumhunting. I can't fault you for your vote for Q, because I did the same, but the hesitant way you tried to push him over the line wasn't super inspiring.

What is it you don't like about SUnrise? And why did you wait so long to shift your vote from the robot?

Good post. OldHarry. Having read more, I don't think OldHarry fits the newbie profile I thought earlier.

Serdoa I'm not sure if you're really living the happiness. There's more to Team Smile than the smileys. You get out of life what you put into it my friend!

I could use some happyizing, I had some sad times these past few days.

I suspect Serdoa and SpaceTyrantXenu, besides OldHarry. STX because I think he's playing the newbie card too much. Serdoa because he seems different from usual, acting all sarcastic with those smilies.

I'm just kidding, before Serdoa finds a way to reach my neck with his hands through fiber cable. I find him suspicious because his posts didn't feel very good while I was skimming. There were some good points against him by other players, though I don't remember exactly what they were. And as I pointed above, I think he overreacted to Rowain's post.

[Serdoa]

Serdoa, nobody has accused MJW of lying about his result or in any way contradicted it. MJW quickly corrected it and nobody raised an eyebrow. Then Jowy said he'd vote MJW unless BRick bailed MJW out. My reaction was one of incredulity.

I was already voting MJW and you think I'd react with anger if Jowy joined my cause?

That's the quote in question:

Okay guys how about we stop revealing stuff? Like, now. Damage has been done, let's not make it worse.

Ryan, why did you investigate Lewwyn of all people?

Brick, if you made a mistake in results last night, let us know please. If Brick does not let us know that he made a mistake, then I'll just assume MJW is lying either about being visited or about not being visited, since he has claimed both.

Seriously? In that case why don't we just ask Brick to confirm all the recent claims? That should save us some trouble.

This quote is not showing incredulity novice, nor are your words here in any way tied to being angered or not about Jowy joining or not joining your vote against MJW. You are pissed about the idea to confirm with BRick if a claim is true or not. And as I told zak, I understand being against it, but the way you react, via a snide remark and sarcasm, is what puts me off.

Also I have to confess I admire your creativity in answering questions you were never asked. It feels like you try to give the best impersonation of your imagined way how I play defense.

[novice]

Nope, never said that I would vote MJW
I think he's town.
But I'll change my mind if that lie leads to something. If he is scum, it must, cause it'd be pretty stupid to lie for no reason.

Well you said you would assume he was lying, which I take to mean you'll assume he's scum.

Serdoa because he seems different from usual, acting all sarcastic with those smilies.