Jowy Wrote:That said, no guarantees that it's right as far as alignment goes, of course. I think Serdoa as a town always has this aura of leadership and authority, which I'm not seeing in this game.
Bolded by me. That's such a typical scum-statement Jowy. "x has to be the bad guy, but of course I can't guarantee that he is." Of course you can't so there is no reason to point that even out. But of course you need an explanation when I do show up village.
The second part I've quoted because it is actually true - because I WANT it so. Guys, don't you get it that I play differently? And this is not the first game I do. I'm just dead tired of being everywhere the "authority", of "leading". I do that the whole day at work, I do it at home, I did it in everything I've done over the last 10 years. I had to LEARN not to do it.
Jowy Wrote:He's frustrated and defending for his life. I think it matches with the attitude he had after WW29 when he was hella mad that we caught him D1, which'd make sense if we're about to catch him early and we even caught his scum buddy on D1. If Serdoa is town, I think he'll manage to make me change my mind like he did in WW28, where he went from a suspect to a confirmed town in one post. Xenu on the other hand still hasn't really done anything except play noob. I think there's a clear contrast with Old Harry here.. Harry seems more like legit noob town, sometimes coming up with decent things to say but making a lot of mistakes. If we just look at the content, Old Harry is more suspicious, yeah.. but Xenu just has no content, it's all fluff. It's not impossible that they are both scum, but Xenu would be the one I'd lynch first because it doesn't seem like we'll ever get any content to judge him by, which I suppose is the point of playing like that as scum.
I don't get this paragraph either Jowy. It seems for me that your arguments against xenu are better than any you have against me, yet you vote for me.
(January 20th, 2014, 18:18)zakalwe Wrote: I've skimmed through. In case Serdoa is still around, I want to ask him what's up with the new, mellow, humble Serdoa. And I'm not just talking about the smileys.
I'm back around. And I honestly would like it to be accepted that I simply try to change certain facets of myself. You all were often enough pissed at me that I would have expected to see delighted comments about "Serdoa not trying to be an asshole". And I don't think I am that different than before. I just try to be a little bit more friendly and delete comments which might aggravate or frustrate others. Because it is better for myself.
(January 20th, 2014, 18:37)Azarius Wrote: Well Serdoa, you did say zak was allowed to question this when I wasn't .
You didn't ask what zak asked, you told me that I'm not giving "expected town-tells". That's a difference Azarius
(January 20th, 2014, 19:46)MJW (ya that one) Wrote: He's not aligning with Zak at all which is very suspicious because they tend to line up if they are on the same team and I have a town read on Zak.
Well, we're not completely out of sync because I've been thinking for a while that I should be joining him on Spacetyrantxenu before the day is up. What I'd like to see from Novice is more stream-of-consciousness, unfiltered impressions, since that kind of stuff is much harder to fake than the usual carefully crafted arguments. That's how I've been able to read him as town before.
Serdoa, I'm not saying I can't believe that you're trying to change, but I wanted you to say explicitly if that was the case or not. I can sympathize with that, as I've had some self-improvement projects myself, but unfortunately I all too often end up claiming that I'm trying to set a new town baseline when what's going on is actually that I'm scum. So I'm sure you realize that's a concern that comes with the territory.
(January 20th, 2014, 20:57)Gazglum Wrote: I do think Q is probably town now, btw, I doubt that the commies would have mishandled the lynch so much that they had two of their number on the block - I'm not sure I can ever remember that happening in my games.
It's happened at least once; I don't remember which game, but it was one in which I played.
Selrahc vs. Ichabod on day 2 of one game. I was sitting on a tracker result implicating Ichabod, though, while Selrahc got caught by traditional means.
I think it's also happened in multi-faction games, though, and it generally should be more likely in those. With this in mind, I am still a little tempted by the information lynch on Q. I didn't get any traction on him today, while the wagons on Serdoa and Gazglum took off easily. Of course, the explanation for that could simply be that Q has been less scummy than them.
Jowy Wrote:That said, no guarantees that it's right as far as alignment goes, of course. I think Serdoa as a town always has this aura of leadership and authority, which I'm not seeing in this game.
Bolded by me. That's such a typical scum-statement Jowy. "x has to be the bad guy, but of course I can't guarantee that he is." Of course you can't so there is no reason to point that even out. But of course you need an explanation when I do show up village.
Yep, I know it looks bad taken out of context. It was actually referring to the idea that multiple people seeing the same things (such as behavior) means that those things probably exist, but that's where it ends. Conclusions cannot be measured in the same way. Say for example that many people see a guy acting strangely. We can safely say that the guy is acting strangely just based on multiple people seeing the same thing. But if 9/10 people draw the conclusion that he's gotta be scum, doesn't mean that he will be scum. It makes sense when you get it.
(January 21st, 2014, 02:17)Serdoa Wrote: I don't get this paragraph either Jowy. It seems for me that your arguments against xenu are better than any you have against me, yet you vote for me.
I think you might be a bit biased on that :P You are of course right, as usual. I prefer to lynch Xenu, but I prefer to pressure you. Will get more outta you than him. That said, I suppose the gig is up now and I might as well move my vote. But this doesn't mean I'm suspecting you any less.
Xenu - I just want to add that your last post, in isolation, is a lot less scummy than your earlier posts. So in the event that you're innocent, you shouldn't give up. Try to catch up to the thread, and just give us your honest thoughts about who you think is scum and town. It might convince us to move off you, and even if it doesn't, it will be useful after you're dead.
On Novice, he's up there on my list of suspects. But I doubt he'd get many votes, really. He's up there not for what he's done, but for what he hasn't done. A few other people could be included in that group, namely Matt, Ichabod and Sunrise, although they're more in line with their normal play. But I'm pretty sure all of them have been a lurking scum before. I especially expected more from Matt after his great performance last game. But yeah, out of those, Novice is the one who seems the scummiest (or the one I have the most unfair expectations of? )
(January 21st, 2014, 02:52)zakalwe Wrote: Serdoa, I'm not saying I can't believe that you're trying to change, but I wanted you to say explicitly if that was the case or not. I can sympathize with that, as I've had some self-improvement projects myself, but unfortunately I all too often end up claiming that I'm trying to set a new town baseline when what's going on is actually that I'm scum. So I'm sure you realize that's a concern that comes with the territory.
Yes, that's perfectly understandable. I won't be upset if I go down, at least this game I know that I did not play well D1. I hardly can fault others to point out that I realized that Azza was off and didn't act on it. I can just explain how it happened. The same goes for me behaving differently than some expect, though at least I would claim that this change isn't sudden nor is it restricted to this game. I mean that's something that has actually not anything to do with this game - it just happens to show here it seems. I'm not sure if you guys realized that I wasn't even aware that it was so obvious till several players pointed it out.
(January 21st, 2014, 03:09)Jowy Wrote: Yep, I know it looks bad taken out of context. It was actually referring to the idea that multiple people seeing the same things (such as behavior) means that those things probably exist, but that's where it ends. Conclusions cannot be measured in the same way. Say for example that many people see a guy acting strangely. We can safely say that the guy is acting strangely just based on multiple people seeing the same thing. But if 9/10 people draw the conclusion that he's gotta be scum, doesn't mean that he will be scum. It makes sense when you get it.
I still think Azarius isn't playing for the village, but for now I seem to be alone with that feeling. I lean right now to vote for Gazglum, mostly because I don't like how he just switched between me and Old Harry and how he seems in general to have decided that yes, one of the Q-voters should be lynched (because its most likely easiest to get a lynch going on them). He should imo be most open to understand why Q got voted in the late run, being part of it. Instead he feels for me like he excuses his own behaviour but faults all others that did the same. Doesn't sit right with me.
Quote:What? Lewwyn being a killer and Ryan giving abilities away right left and center? At the point that I posted they were waaaay more scummy. I've been thinking about day one a bit more since, and I think I was trying too hard not to OMGUS Catwalk (something I'm very conscious that other newbies have done), so saw your attack on him as unfair, when I should probably have joined you in a bout of righteous indignation.
That isn't what you wrote, at least the way I took it:
(January 20th, 2014, 17:07)Old Harry Wrote: Well there was the mess with Ryan and Lewwyn going on at the time except that they've both looked more villagery in the aftermath, I don't like Jowy asking everyone to stop revealing and then asking Lewwyn for more info and I don't like how everyone seems to be voting for me.
What's bothering me most is the number of people I don't have a gut feel for either way:
- Ichabod - he gets credit for pegging my stuff as nooby but his criticism of Serdoa is "there were some good points against him by other players, though I don't remember exactly what they were"
- Matt - just correcting things people didn't understand from the rules, not much else except that his vote on Bob seemed to miss that Bob had already mentioned wolves could attack themselves
- Mero - Canadian, but getting better
- Novice - Saying "This is not good" eight minutes before Azza was lynched must have been what led to Gaz, Serdoa and me piling on, so that makes it his fault
- Serdoa - as bad at voting as me so far, with so much time spent defending something that wasn't even an attack on him, I think maybe he protests too much?
- Xenu - barely here
- Sunrise - keeping his head down except for tagging the top candidate (Hi!), he hasn't risked a vote yet today
Speaking of which I'm not voting Lewwyn today and I don't want to turn Sunrise's attention into a vote so I'll have to vote for one of my colleagues at the end of the Q bandwagon, which is going to be [applies padding] Serdoa. [Hides]
I thought you were saying that those in the list were the ones you found scummy and therefore were presumably more scummy then you found me. And your I really don't like this about-turn of totally accepting what I was saying when it was enough to lynch me for it, and now agreeing with my hit on catwalk when still today he found it suspicious. And what he wrote initially didn't sound like he was finiding the whole Ryan-Lewwyn incident suspicious. He wrote:
"I think other people have said more scummy things now though, so it depends who else is up for the lynch."
Which really doesn't sound like he was reacting strongly to the actions of Ryan/Lewwyn, but rather that a lot of people had been saying relatively scummy things...things and people that he has failed to produce (I'm not saying they aren't there), but instead he is rewriting the intent of his earlier actions.
Combined with his very wishy-washy and non-committal tone, lack of content and suspicious voting, I'm pretty sure we have a scum in Old Harry.
I would also be prepared to vote novice for his play (or lack thereof) and because he reads very scummy if there isn't sufficient support for Harry.
Beyond that I'm suspicious of Gazglum for the tone of his posts, lack of content and the catch that Zakalwe made, Space for his lack of any content and seemingly playing up his noob side and a few other people based largely off how they read (Jowy, Ichabod and Sunrise), but I'm much more certain on Harry and novice.
Cross-posted with a lot. Jowy stop antagonizing Lewwyn, Lewwyn stop reacting.
I am the me who is resisting getting into a fight on the internet today, and as a result everyone is happier
(January 20th, 2014, 20:26)Qgqqqqq Wrote: That isn't what you wrote, at least the way I took it:
(January 20th, 2014, 17:07)Old Harry Wrote: Well there was the mess with Ryan and Lewwyn going on at the time except that they've both looked more villagery in the aftermath, I don't like Jowy asking everyone to stop revealing and then asking Lewwyn for more info and I don't like how everyone seems to be voting for me.
What's bothering me most is the number of people I don't have a gut feel for either way:
... [snip]
I thought you were saying that those in the list were the ones you found scummy and therefore were presumably more scummy then you found me.
Nope, I was saying that when I posted that I found Jowy, Lewwyn and Ryan more scummy, but since then the latter two had appeared more towny. The list was because I really don't have a strong scum lean on anyone, so I think some hard lurking is going on.
(January 20th, 2014, 20:26)Qgqqqqq Wrote: And your I really don't like this about-turn of totally accepting what I was saying when it was enough to lynch me for it, and now agreeing with my hit on catwalk when still today he found it suspicious.
Fair enough, I'm just willing to admit when I make mistakes. Although that's probably another mistake in WW...
FYI, people I'm finding more scummy than you right now are: Serdoa, Gazglum, Novice, Jowy
People I wish wouldn't abuse other players in the thread: Lewwyn
.
