Quote:I'm back around. And I honestly would like it to be accepted that I simply try to change certain facets of myself. You all were often enough pissed at me that I would have expected to see delighted comments about "Serdoa not trying to be an asshole". And I don't think I am that different than before. I just try to be a little bit more friendly and delete comments which might aggravate or frustrate others. Because it is better for myself.
I see this and appreciate it! I would definitely say it's more of a trying not to be rather then a trying to be not (if that makes any sense). Werewolf is a naturally aggresive and offensive game but any effort to prevent that is awesome (something which I've apparently been failing at.... ).
I can't really read Azarius either way. I mean, he hasn't been paticularly useful, but nothing he's said has jumped out at me, and I can't even seem to get a tone read on him. The same could be said of Mattimeo, which probably means I should re-read.
(January 21st, 2014, 03:16)zakalwe Wrote: Xenu - I just want to add that your last post, in isolation, is a lot less scummy than your earlier posts. So in the event that you're innocent, you shouldn't give up. Try to catch up to the thread, and just give us your honest thoughts about who you think is scum and town. It might convince us to move off you, and even if it doesn't, it will be useful after you're dead.
I agree with this. Moreover, it's one of the reasons I'm heasitant to lynch The Tyrant today, as he seems to be trying to improve and contribute while Old Harry and novice don't seem to have changed appreciably.
X post with the Old Man on the Mountain. I may do a quick response to him but I'm more likely to just let it wait till the morrow.
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
Quote:Nope, I was saying that when I posted that I found Jowy, Lewwyn and Ryan more scummy, but since then the latter two had appeared more towny. The list was because I really don't have a strong scum lean on anyone, so I think some hard lurking is going on.
What pushed Serdoa above Jowy for you? (Especially given you didn't have a gut feeling regarding him).
Quote:Fair enough, I'm just willing to admit when I make mistakes. Although that's probably another mistake in WW...
Not always
Nah, it can cause problems for you but its much more likely to keep you alive longer (which is why I haven't been saying anything further about Catwalk, as he's read largely village today).
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
(January 20th, 2014, 20:57)Gazglum Wrote: Eliminating my town reads I was left with Azza and Q, both of whom I saw as potential scum, without being very convinced on either.
(January 20th, 2014, 20:57)Gazglum Wrote: Eliminating my town reads I was left with Azza and Q, both of whom I saw as potential scum, without being very convinced on either.
What made you think catwalk is town?
Catwalk was posting a lot, he built a case against Old Harry, he wanted people not to post fluff and he said he would rather lynch inactives than actives. As far as I remember, the main case against him was that he was making a mountain out of a molehill and was too eager to jump on Old Harry. I'm not sure that I've played wit hCatwalk before, but I've read him in older games including one recently, and he seemed to match what I remembered. And my general rule of thumb is not to vote for the loud, chatty people on Day 1. I dont' think that's how people play scum, except for the really really confident players like Lewwyn, and I don't place Catwalk in that group. He seemed like mislynch bait to me.
Azza and Q both fitted my profile of scum Day 1 much more closely - commenting and contributing, but nothing too memorable and not rushing out to take the lead.
(January 21st, 2014, 04:04)Serdoa Wrote: I still think Azarius isn't playing for the village, but for now I seem to be alone with that feeling. I lean right now to vote for Gazglum, mostly because I don't like how he just switched between me and Old Harry and how he seems in general to have decided that yes, one of the Q-voters should be lynched (because its most likely easiest to get a lynch going on them). He should imo be most open to understand why Q got voted in the late run, being part of it. Instead he feels for me like he excuses his own behaviour but faults all others that did the same. Doesn't sit right with me.
This I really don't like. If you lean to vote for me, why not vote for me?
I loud and proud agree that yes, I think one of the Q-voters should be lynched. And let me be clear, I don't think that voting Q was scummy. I think that scum were voting Q. That is a very important distinction. If you disagree, then I think it is on your shouldesr to explain what you think the scum were doing instead after Azza was pushed to the lead. Were they all not online? Did they decide to bus him, (needlessly I would say)?
Remember, after Azza started picking up votes, the ONLY other votes were for Q. EIther scum were voting their buddy, letting him hang, or they were on Q.
Since you and me are in the same boat, having voted Q, I don't see why you woudn't be hammering the Q train every post. Because we are in a situation where we have an even smaller suspect pool to pick from - if we know we are innocent, that's only 4 other Q voters to look at. But instead you've been attackign fellow trainers Novice and Azarius, but for general posts rather than the Q vote. You argued against looking at the Q voters with Rowain (post 350). You agreed with Harry, 'why would scum push Q?' (post 525)
What you are NOT doing, is trying to account for what the scum did at the end of Day 1. You're actively moving the discussion away from that idea, when Occam's Razor would suggest that the commies tried, and failed, to save Azza. And in WW, I think that the simplest answer is usually a pretty good guide for what went down.
If you were innocent, I think you would want to analyse the Q train closely to see what happened there. Instead you want to move the discussion on. That reeks of scum to me.
And finally, from a self preservation stance, this post of yours makes me think that you are laying the groundwork for jumping to vote me to save yourself, but you don't want to do it unless you have to. DOn't want to be on the wrong candidate two days in a row? And yes I am switching back and forth, because I really don't know who I find more suspicious, you or Old Harry. Tomorrow morning I will make up my mind, and I'm proabably happy to vote either of you if necessary to beat another candidate.
Having said all that, Serdoa, I agree that you've been much nicer to play with and I appreciate it. It's a game, we're all here to have fun. And that's the real Gaz speaking, not Happiness Officer Glum. And I am having a really good time with this game.
I do want to give more reads, and especially on Merovech, but I'm out of time tonight. Just quickly, Merovech has been making my spider sense tingle a little, but not enough to vote for him just yet. I didn't like his post locking himself onto MJW, Zak and Sunrise, especially since I saw MJW as clean. I didn't love this post:
(January 20th, 2014, 14:53)Merovech Wrote: I don't think that Lewwyn is innocent based on his previous vig hints then Doctor claim, but do lean innocent based on his being hit plus delivering a wolf, so I don't know what to think there.
I think Lewwyn is a terrible vote (Ryan, change!), and I don't like this wishy washy comment on the matter.
But it coudl just be that Mero and me have different reads on the game, and his being away for 2 days makes it hard to say much more.
I'll try to give some more reads tomorrow, but I admit that it will be too late to sway the lynch by then. I think we should vote on the Q train, not the Azza train. I think that the scum have come close to really screwing up, and are now trying to cover their tracks. Even if you vote me, you'll get more info than you will from killing a total random who wasn't on the Day 1 deadline.
(January 21st, 2014, 05:45)Gazglum Wrote: This I really don't like. If you lean to vote for me, why not vote for me?
1. You are not my top suspect.
2. Azarius might still gain traction.
Quote:I loud and proud agree that yes, I think one of the Q-voters should be lynched. And let me be clear, I don't think that voting Q was scummy. I think that scum were voting Q. That is a very important distinction. If you disagree, then I think it is on your shouldesr to explain what you think the scum were doing instead after Azza was pushed to the lead. Were they all not online? Did they decide to bus him, (needlessly I would say)?
I'm not scum so I can't tell you what they did. My personal opinion is that a majority was probably not online (if it wasn't weekend AND my wife not able to sleep I would not have been around myself - for Europe this deadline is the middle of the night). What I know is that simply being on Q is imo no reason to vote, at least for me, because I was on Q and I am not scum. I don't see why I should suspect someone if he just did what I did.
Quote:Remember, after Azza started picking up votes, the ONLY other votes were for Q. EIther scum were voting their buddy, letting him hang, or they were on Q.
Maybe some were on Azza - not expecting him to gain traction - and feared to move, maybe some were asleep and maybe others decided to even jump on in the last second. I have seen over the course of these games so many things and every time I was told that scum would never do something. And every time at the end we agree that scum might not be as organized as we all believe.
Besides, what you imo imply here is that scum did something coordinated. I don't believe that. I had that discussion earlier and Rowain asked who had stated that all scum voted for Q. No one, but posts like yours imply that this is what happened without stating it. Maybe there was a scum on Q. Definitely possible. But the RUN on him has nothing to do with scum and I would bet that it was in no way a move by scum to save him.
Quote:Since you and me are in the same boat, having voted Q, I don't see why you woudn't be hammering the Q train every post. Because we are in a situation where we have an even smaller suspect pool to pick from - if we know we are innocent, that's only 4 other Q voters to look at. But instead you've been attackign fellow trainers Novice and Azarius, but for general posts rather than the Q vote. You argued against looking at the Q voters with Rowain (post 350). You agreed with Harry, 'why would scum push Q?' (post 525)
See above
Quote:What you are NOT doing, is trying to account for what the scum did at the end of Day 1. You're actively moving the discussion away from that idea, when Occam's Razor would suggest that the commies tried, and failed, to save Azza. And in WW, I think that the simplest answer is usually a pretty good guide for what went down.
Yes, because this idea has imo no merit. I am certain that they were all over the place as I doubt that they decided to bus Azza, I doubt that they decided on a "10 minute suicide run on Q" and what is left is that it transpired the way it did without them influencing it overly = they were all over the place. And therefore discussing that is just wasting time, because discussing actual gameplay makes more sense than trying to read something in a voting like that.
Quote:And finally, from a self preservation stance, this post of yours makes me think that you are laying the groundwork for jumping to vote me to save yourself, but you don't want to do it unless you have to. DOn't want to be on the wrong candidate two days in a row? And yes I am switching back and forth, because I really don't know who I find more suspicious, you or Old Harry. Tomorrow morning I will make up my mind, and I'm proabably happy to vote either of you if necessary to beat another candidate.
I definitely will vote wherever necessary to save myself Gazglum. We established for this games some time ago already that a villager only knows his alignment and therefore it would be wrong not to save yourself. Heroic acts that at worst save a scum are not really making sense imo. But while we are at it, aren't you yourself stating in that very part of your post that you will vote for whoever has more votes when you wake up again? Yes, you call it "make up my mind", but really, that is only stalling to see what transpires. Not that I fault you for doing so, see above voting to save yourself is perfectly fine for a villager, but the way you try again - as with the Q-train - to spin your acts as good and villagery while others doing the same are scum and evil is kinda making it hard not to suspect you.
I wrote this post at the beginning of the day, so obviously OldHarry has made some posts since then, but not all of them good. I saved it because I wanted to put pressure elsewhere and not lock myself into a vote. Anyway this is my analysis of OldHarry's Day 1.
OldHarry has made a lot of scummy posts this game starting with his very first one. Many people might say this is a joke post, and it is, but what OldHarry has done here is try to break the ice without actually voting for anyone. It's harder for newbie wolves to do that initial vote. It just is. Even I have issues with my first vote when I'm scum. Something about the first cut is the deepest...
His first vote comes much later on and is interesting because he piggybacks off of novice who has piggybacked off of OldHarry. It is a strange post as Zak, Ichabod and others pointed out. It meanders around other suspicions and lands on voting for Azarius. And his response is to deflect:
(January 17th, 2014, 10:54)Old Harry Wrote: BTW Catwalk, how can Lewwyn be overreacting if he hasn't called you an imbecile yet?
So far I see newbie wolf trying to keep his nerves down play things off as funny and jokey.
(January 17th, 2014, 20:50)Old Harry Wrote: Catwalk and Q (and Zak I think) - yes my posts have been fluff, but can you point out any in the first hundred that weren't?
Yes Oldharry I can point out many, many posts that were not fluff in the first 100. In fact almost all of mine were not fluff.
At this point I wanted to see what OldHarry's reaction to a vote from me would be. Apparently it is to quote your previous defences and then make a joke. I don't respond to see what the pressure does to him. He ends up cracking IMO(spoilered for length):
(January 18th, 2014, 14:15)Old Harry Wrote: This is much harder than it looks from the sidelines (it is my first game novice). First up I have some thoughts that are fluff and can be skipped if you don't like that sort of thing. I'm mostly just writing them to get them straight in my head and in the hope that you'll point out where I'm wrong:
Quote:- I'd like Imana-665-C to be Gaspar, so he gets to join in with the game without all the pain of defending himself. But I'd expect a whole lot more text from him, so I assume it's Brick and that he's got an automated way of making him vote so that he doesn't unfairly influence the game.
- Bob's secondary idea of having vigs hold their fire overnight seems interesting whether or not we lynch. If the wolves use their shot(s) it would mean a confirmed villager or a wounded wolf. The confirmed villager could be a great asset to the village. A wounded wolf would need to be a bit careful not to get themselves mixed up in anything over the next couple of days but would be terrible for the village. If the wolves don't use their shot(s) then that's great for town. At first it seems like this is a good idea - although the prospect of a part-cleared wounded wolf really shoots it in the foot (I know I'm paraphrasing what someone else said, but I wanted to get the logic sorted out for myself). I think this does give Bob a bit of a scum tell.
- Would a possibility for MJW be that he is unvisitable scum, so using up power roles on him is bad for the village. If he's unvisitable village then he'd be better trying to get himself nightkilled by scum. Of course there are a bunch of other possibilities too.
- I think Xenu is floundering about as much as I am. We just need to find someone to sheep...
Azarius posted some more today - nothing groundbreaking, but nothing suspicious either, so since I'm not finding novice scummy or 3rd party (I think he just wasn't paying a lot of attention at the start) I'll go for Lewwyn, who is posting up a storm, but they mostly seem empty (pot meet kettle...) and is just a bit too happy, as if he's rolled scum and is really up for a game.
ps - can I have a link to get the latest version of novice's tool?
He votes for me because my "posts have been empty" (they weren't in the slightest, every post had a purpose and gave insight upon my feelings on whatever topic was at hand), and because I'm too happy so that must mean I've rolled scum. Both of these reasons are bad. One is fallacious and seeks to discredit, the second to cast aspersion. And he neglects the biggest reason. He's voting for me because I voted for him, likely in attempt to push me off of him. And it's also an easier vote to make as new scum, (he voted for me so I'll vote for him.)
After this of course comes "I'm going to regret this aren't I" vote on Qg, with 1 minute left to go in the day tying up Azza and qg. However, the computer had voted seconds before and its possible OldHarry thought he was putting the hammer down on Qg and saving Azza.
Add it all up and I think OldHarry is our most likely scum for the day and MUST be hanged.
“The wind went mute and the trees in the forest stood still. It was time for the last tale.”
I would definitely say it's more of a trying not to be rather then a trying to be not (if that makes any sense). Werewolf is a naturally aggresive and offensive game but any effort to prevent that is awesome (something which I've apparently been failing at.... 
).
We just need to find someone to sheep...