This was at the start of day 2, and I would argue that I had not started posting "better" at that point. I think I've been more active on day 2 than on day 1, but this was before that shift in activity.
So the thing that had actually changed at that point in time was that I'd voted to lynch a commie, which would make me a tougher target for a mislynch. But you justified your new targeting with a shift in behavior, which wasn't really there, at least not from my own point of view.
(January 21st, 2014, 03:19)Jowy Wrote: On Novice, he's up there on my list of suspects. But I doubt he'd get many votes, really. He's up there not for what he's done, but for what he hasn't done. A few other people could be included in that group, namely Matt, Ichabod and Sunrise, although they're more in line with their normal play. But I'm pretty sure all of them have been a lurking scum before. I especially expected more from Matt after his great performance last game. But yeah, out of those, Novice is the one who seems the scummiest (or the one I have the most unfair expectations of? )
Jowy, what exactly about Novice's play makes him seem the scummiest to you?
I pretty much explained it in that quote. I expect more from town novice than what he's done so far. His only contribution has been starting the Q bandwagon. He's done late bandwagons as both town and scum before. But we know that he was competing against a bandwagon on scum, and Q is looking townish. The other lurkers didn't vote for Q, and their quiet play fits better with their town baseline.
Btw I've gotta admit that it's looking more and more likely that the scum did gang up on Q on Day 1. I've been evaluating suspects separately without really thinking about any scum team compositions, and a lot of my suspects fall into the category of people who voted for Q on Day 1. If they fucked that up, it'd explain why novice isn't really giving a fuck, why Old Harry is all over the place, why Serdoa is eating humble pie.
(January 21st, 2014, 15:47)Jowy Wrote: Okay, attempting to make it more clear.
Lewwyn's role, if true, is not pro-town. It's neutral. He might end up killing one of us, or he might protect one of us.
It's not a role that is inherently good for the town. It's a gamble.
This is why I don't think that we should let a suspicious guy with an ability to kill roam free. It might help us, but it might hurt us. That is even if we'd 100% know that he's town and his ability is real. Which we don't! This is a guy who a lot of you have found suspicious, and just to remind you, Ryan's scan never mentioned the doctor part of his role. Lewwyn never explained why he had the safety net of references to a vig role set up in case he got caught by the town. There's more than a low chance that Lewwyn is bullshitting us. Why would we take this risk when we can easily roleblock him and it's not like we have a better target for the roleblock?
Lewwyn's role, if true, is pro-town, if he has the good sense to use it properly- he can kill scum and protect confirmed villagers, although at this point he'd probably be forced to just protect himself every night, if he has that option.
I am still confused about how Ryan's scan works- did it just tell him if a person had the *potential* to wound? That's the impression I've got, which means that Lewwyn's explanation makes sense.
But you are correct, there is a very real chance Lewwyn is simply lying, with his explanation for how his power works very conveniently matching Ryan's description while also making him a potentially essential villager. I'm pretty sure he isn't scum based on his killing vote on Azza, but he would very well be a SK or 3rd party killer- explaining the hit on Ryan and his insistence that there isn't a 3rd faction. But then again neutering him makes the night easier for scum if Lewwyn *is* village. So I haven't made up my mind, and I am torn about what to do, hence asking for input. I don't have another person in mind to sanitize instead, probably just whoever has the second most votes a couple minutes before lynch, so that if we kill a villager at least the person the second-largest number of people thought to be suspicious can't use their power.
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Quote:Lewwyn's role, if true, is not pro-town. It's neutral. He might end up killing one of us, or he might protect one of us.
It's not a role that is inherently good for the town. It's a gamble.
This is why I don't think that we should let a suspicious guy with an ability to kill roam free. It might help us, but it might hurt us. That is even if we'd 100% know that he's town and his ability is real. Which we don't! This is a guy who a lot of you have found suspicious, and just to remind you, Ryan's scan never mentioned the doctor part of his role. Lewwyn never explained why he had the safety net of references to a vig role set up in case he got caught by the town. There's more than a low chance that Lewwyn is bullshitting us. Why would we take this risk when we can easily roleblock him and it's not like we have a better target for the roleblock?
Given that you have accepted his role, if grudgingly/not-fully, why would you be any more suspicious of him then before Ryan started this whole affair? And I would say the majority do not find him suspicious, especially compared to all the other possibilities out there. And if Lewwyn is scum, then it honestly doesn't matter if he is bulshitting us or not, as he wouldn't be sent to perform a kill anyway (as he is almost certainly going to be watched/tracked or even jailed tonight). And if he is town, there is absolutely no reason why we should block him. None. Because irrespective of any personal feelings you may or may not have, he is a competent player. (I didn't want to bring up WW17, but I know someone will, so I'm saying this with full memory of what happened there and I strongly believe that Lewwyn has learnt from it so that example is not relevant.) And why on earth would we block a competent town player with a situationally strong role? So any reason for blocking Lewwyn has to emerge out of a belief that he is scum or third-party. And while that remains a possibility, I would say that it is much less likely to be the case with him then, say, Mattimeo. Or any random player chosen. And while I believe that Lewwyn is town more then the majority, I would say that most people find him less likely to be scum then any of novice, Old Harry and other candidates.
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
...and I forgot to unvote. That could have been awkward, since pretty much every other vibe I was getting off Old Harry was 'new villager still working out how the hell to play'.
(January 20th, 2014, 14:46)Merovech Wrote: Something that I literally just realized as I was writing the above paragraph: Spacetyrantxenu's assumption that a villager can only win if alive at the end game is really strange, for a few reasons. 1) It goes counter to the village PM. Now, Brick posted that PM so everyone has access to it, but I find it pretty easy to believe that someone would just skim Brick's opening posts or skip the PM copy. I find it much harder to believe that someone would skim their own, personal PM. Now, a wolf PM would say a similar thing, but an SK or survivor PM sure wouldn't. 2). How many games have some teammates win and others lose? Space's argument seems bad even without knowin the game. There is a difference between being a noob and pretending not to understand what is going on. Spacetyrantxenu obviously isn't a stranger to games in general; he's here, after all.
Official rules may state that you join your team in victory despite being dead.
The problem with that is that, well, you're dead. Hard to enjoy the werewolf free life the village now has if you lack the 'life' portion of it. It's really rather the same as if the wolves had won.
Game's so much more fun if you're playing it for survival as well.
(January 21st, 2014, 14:34)Bobchillingworth Wrote: Self-defense is fine. Saying you're going to park your vote on someone you think is innocent to save your own hide is suspicious, because it could be a preemptive excuse for what someone knows is going to look like wolf-play.
*Saying* it may be mildly suspicious, but *doing* it should be entirely expected. You're 100% town. They're not, even if you think they're more likely to be town than not. Your death hurts the town more.
Remember you can only sanitise someone once. If Lewwyn really is 3rd party, better to save hit shot for later. And if he's town, better he can do his stuff tonight, when he may not die.
-- Don’t forget.
Always, somewhere,
someone is fighting for you.
-- As long as you remember her,
you are not alone.
Ok, so the train as expected is starting to roll at me. I really didn't expect it to happen much earlier, we learned already that you don't get the one lynched if you start the wagon early in the day, but I expected it to happen and it seems I was right. I will however go to sleep now and I think I have talked enough about myself as well as who I suspect and why. That seems to have been lost in the noise, as it seems several points I brought up besides defence (but in posts that also included defence) were not really registered. At least thats my impression from what was stated against me.
Anyhow, that post just serves as an information so that no one can bring the defence that he voted for me, expecting me to reply before the lynch.
Apart from that, one last point: Please don't vote for me on the grounds of someone stating "Why is he so defeatist? He surely just tries to play us". I don't and I didn't with anything I posted / stated.
Quote:Remember you can only sanitise someone once.
Good point matt, I'd forgotten that. Not sure how that effects the judgement.
I'm not sure I'm comfortable with how fast the Old Harry train dissapeared, despite being part of it...but I'm not sure if that's enough to risk neither of the pair getting to the lynch.
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
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