WW 31 Game Thread PARANOIA

[Jowy]

I am NOT scum, I am a troubleshooter.

Hey, that's how ScumGlum ended his defense posts in WW25
Good old times..

[Rowain]

Scum and Impossibly Terrible Villager? I don't know, I don't even really care, you both need to hang.

Yes Gaz & novice do look like that.

[Catwalk]

Rowain, are you saying you have absolutely no information about Serdoa other than thinking he's a good guy?

[Qgqqqqq]

Tally as of post 1193:

5 votes: BobChillingworth (Gazglum, MJW (ya that one), Ichabod, Jowy, novice)
5 votes: Gazglum (Rowain, zakalwe, Serdoa, Mattimeo, Catwalk)
3 votes: novice (Qgqqqqq, Bobchillingworth, Merovech)
2 votes: Mattimeo (Lewwyn, Azarius)

Voting history:

Mattimeo

Mattimeo

Mattimeo

Qgqqqqq

MJW

Ryan

Mattimeo

lewwyn

Bob

Lewwyn

Bobchillingworth

Bobchillingworth

Bob

Bobchillingworth

Jowy

Matt

Jowy

Azarius

BobChillingworth

Gazglum

Gazglum

Lewwyn

Gazglum

Jowy

Gazglum

Serdoa

Bobchillingworth

bobchillingworth

Gazglum

Serdoa

Bobchillingworth

Serdoa

Serdoa

Serdoa

Unvote

Serdoa

Gazglum

Gazglum

unvote

Rowain

novice

Bobchillingworth

bobchillingworth

Bobchillingworth

novice

Novice

Gazglum

Bobchillingworth

novice

Obviously ignore Lewwyn's vote.

[Jowy]

I think Rowain should talk. My words are backed with nuclear votes.

[Qgqqqqq]

Why exactly is Rowain suspicious?

[Gazglum]

Alright Friend Computer, I would like to call up the records on Troubleshooter #8: Bobchillingworth

THE BOB FILES: Day 1

- Bob opens with a succession of jokey posts, rolling a D20 for his vote and picking Rowain.
- He then suggests voting no lynch. His logic makes sense, try to get some likely villagers show up with wounds. I think it's a boring way to play, but its not scummy to suggest.
- #129 he warns MJW not to imply his role, which gels with Bob being so closemouthed himself now.
- #165 he lays the first vote for Azza, for his attack on MJW.

So I'm going to vote for Azza, because I think MJW is most likely innocent, and voting for him right now is in most circumstances unhelpful. And Azza's reason for voting for MJW is really lame. MJW is "playing it up for the crowd"? Why would that help a wolf? What does that even mean? And voting for anyone for being "meta-crazy" is just a terrible rationale. Half of my posts here have been meta-crazy, and you apparently liked those!

Azza never changed up his style, only double-downed on it, so Bob didn't have a very good excuse to move off him if he wanted to, nor much of a reason to if he didn't.

- Bob then says MJW played it badly, hinting at his role. But he says he thinks it dumb village play, not scum, which is why he distrusts Azza's vote.

- #176: MJW lays the second vote for Azza,

- #179 Serdoa, you attacked Bob here.

Serdoa you said that you would get banned if you posted on what you thought on post #1792 in ww19.

That has to be some long time ago and your first description didn't ring a bell, but that one does.

... But I think if I had a village role which required village power roles to use their abilities on me I would either act discreetly until there was a good opportunity to claim (maybe to test a public seer claim or something, depending on how my own power worked), or, if my power was one which needed to be activated / charged / whatever ASAP, I would just state outright what my role was- safer than usual here, since you get an extra life.
...
That said, I don't want you to outright role-claim at this point because even if people know what your power needs (this is all obviously assuming you are telling the truth & a villager), there is very likely still value in keeping the exact nature of your abilities a secret, at least for now. But I'm not sure you'll actually get many people using night abilities on you.

The bolded parts make not much sense Bob. First you state that you would outright claim such a role and then you state that he should not because there is very likely value in keeping the role secret. But if there is value in keeping it secret now, there was value in keeping it secret from the start.

For me this feels like you write what you think others would expect from you, not what you really believe. And that normally happens to scum-players that pursued a target and suddenly realize they have to change direction as the pursued one doesn't get as much heat as they thought. Happened to me (with MJW as target funnily enough...) in one of the recent games we played.

Bobchillingworth

@Azza

I don't think your assessment of MJW is correct. He does plays that I find insane quite often, but in the few last games we played on RB with him involved he did never come across as crazy imo - his ideas and plays yes, but not he himself. He seemed very aware of the situation and how to use it best. Imo he showed pretty good play - not insane ramblings. Therefore I don't think he needs to maintain some "insane persona".

And honestly, I think you should know that.

What do you think about that argument now, Serdoa? You've been consistently attacking me rather than Bob today, but Day 1 your suspicions were Bobwards. I admit it might be hard to balance that against the player who electrocuted you, I admit.

- #191 Mattimeo chimed in to vote Bob too, no reason given. I assumed at the time he was agreeing with Serdoa's case. Do you have anything to add about that vote, Matt?

- #205 big post from Bob, dwefending against Serdoa. This is his last real post of the day.

The bolded parts make not much sense Bob. First you state that you would outright claim such a role and then you state that he should not because there is very likely value in keeping the role secret. But if there is value in keeping it secret now, there was value in keeping it secret from the start.

Well, I said role-claiming immediately was one option, the other being keeping quiet. It would really depend on the nature of the power. I could list different possible powers and in what situations keeping quiet would make sense vs. claiming early, but I'm not sure how that helps anyone and I think you know this game well enough to imagine scenarios on your own. I don't want MJW to openly claim now because I can think of yet more situations where not doing so is the best play, and I don't want to try to force him into a mistake. Do you feel any differently? I stand by what I wrote, assuming MJW is both village and telling the truth about what his power requires, his middle approach between roleclaiming and secrecy has bought him distrust and possibly danger, which means it was a suboptimal choice from his various options if his goals are A: get village powers used on him, and B: not die.

Aren't you playing a bit of a middle ground yourself now?

And that normally happens to scum-players that pursued a target and suddenly realize they have to change direction as the pursued one doesn't get as much heat as they thought.

Except I haven't been pursuing any targets until I voted for Azza (in one of the same posts you're criticizing where I gave my thoughts on MJW) because I think his case against MJW is incredibly lightweight and reeks of a Day 1 "safe" vote. And right now I'm keeping my vote on him.

So Bob is keeping his vote on Azza. Azza certainly hadn't given him much reason to move. This is the last time Bob comments on a player up for lynch.

#228 - Rowain votes Azza, putting him up to 3 and equal with Catwalk.

#237 - Bob briefly comments on the robot.

And that's it. Bob makes no comment on the other suspects, he waits till the vote is over. As soon as it is, he jumps back on to say congratulations to everyone.

Overall, it's a cautious Day 1. Bob is very rational, in his favour, but he restricts him scumhutnign to MJW and Azza. He specifically suggests not lynching at first.

He was first on the Azza train, that was his main bit of scumhunting . I would argue there wasn't a very good station for him to get off at, because Azza didn't give him much to work with.

If Bob is scum, I actually think he would be communist rather than a serial killer. A serial killer wouldn't be in favour of no-lynchings, whereas a cautious communist might well park an early vote on his buddy Azza. It's not like Azza usually goes down Day 1. He only died in this game because no other good cases emerged. (Standard Glum disclaimer - I still think there were communists trying to save Q.)

I wouldn't vote Bob based on this day, but I don't think it gives him a strong town lean either.

[Gazglum]

I am NOT scum, I am a troubleshooter.

Hey, that's how ScumGlum ended his defense posts in WW25
Good old times..

They were good times. I hope to relive them one day. But not this day.

[Jowy]

Why exactly is Rowain suspicious?

He's keeping secrets. I think it's only fair that he shares them after he steered the vote away from Serdoa and to a town player (Old Harry) with words that implied he had something more than his read on Serdoa. I'm also wondering why he didn't confirm that he healed Ryan with the item. I don't see why not, which makes me nervous.

[Gazglum]

@ novice

If you accuse me then please refrain from lies/incorrect facts thank you very much.

And Serdoa had only handed out one item when you made your announcement that he should not be lynched.

At the time I made my announcement Serdoa has already said that he wants to hand the doc-bot to me.

Serdoa, with multiple scum factions I don't see any reason why you can't be scum.

I really doubt there are multiple scumfactions. Ryan, MJW, Serdoa and Qg have all visited Lewwyn? But that can wait till we really learn about Lewwyns role at days end.

More importantly:
You are extremely after role-knowledge novice. Why this extreme need to know?
What about your role and flavour?

Three points Rowain.

1. Of course Serdoa handed you the doc bot. Why is that a particular village tell? A communist wants to do his best to publicly present a Troubleshooter facade. Especially a communist who is tetering on the edge of being lynched. In what world wouldn't a scum player, Serdoa or anyone, do the best he could to handle the items as townily as possible? It's better to keep a scum alive than get lynched because you picked a slightly sub-optimal item to mildly damage the town.

Is that really the sole basis you switched your view on Serdoa? If so, why did you spend a day avoiding the question with retorts like 'figure it out yourself Gaz'? The people who are calling it damn fishy are right.

2. Novice wants to hear the competing vigilante claims so he can judge them. Since we all seem to be agreed that either Bob or me are lying, there is a logic to that. That's not the same as calling for a full role dump, or Novice giving his own.

3. I don't really remember what the third point was. But while I'm here, I personally think a serial killer or second faction seems likely. Otherwise we have 3 vigilante kills, plus me claiming I was blocked on an additional one Night 1, and that after people were advised NOT to use vigilante abilities in the night.