Quote:(Standard Glum disclaimer - I still think there were communists trying to save Q.)
Really???
Quote:He's keeping secrets. I think it's only fair that he shares them after he steered the vote away from Serdoa and to a town player (Old Harry) with words that implied he had something more than his read on Serdoa. I'm also wondering why he didn't confirm that he healed Ryan with the item. I don't see why not, which makes me nervous.
I really doubt that without his involvement Serdoa would have been lynched. Most people who suspected Old Harry were also interested in novice as a secondary target and there were about 11 on Harry/novice and 3 on Serdoa. Its possible I suppose, but you overstate his influence here. (And I think it's pretty clear that he doesn't have any secrets regarding to Serdoa at this stage.)
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
Quote:Bob's done nothing proactive today, he's trying to move his king out of check.
I would say Pot, Kettle- except you're way scummier than I, Mr. Self-Professed Serial Killer
Side-step the issue much? You might think I'm scummier, but I'm not being reactive like you. You're defending yourself by saying "I have nothing more to say on that subject", and making vague attacks on others backed up with nothing, like:
(January 23rd, 2014, 12:03)Bobchillingworth Wrote: Well, certainly a target rich environment today, kind of a shame I'm one of them but I'm sure that at least one anti-village player has gotten caught up in all the drama.
So, we've got Gazglum, who is some sort of pro-village SK? Or something? Desperate nonsense borne of a desire to establish a semi-plausible half-truth cover before a power role ruins any chance of him escaping the noose. He gets my vote.
And then there's Serdoa, lying about who he is tracking. But Rowain vouches for him, and Rowain reads village, so I'm not sure what to make of this yet.
And Jowy, who openly tried (and apparently succeeded, wtf) to kick Lewwyn from the game. Boundary-crossing scum behavior? You decide!
That is a hella scummy post. Then your tying together of me and Novice seems to me designed to buddy Serdoa. What reason do you have to vote for me except for the fact I kill people? An unsociable trait, I grant you, but not a particular scum tell since you have it as well.
My point stands - you are playing hard defence at the moment.
(January 23rd, 2014, 18:17)Qgqqqqq Wrote: Why exactly is Rowain suspicious?
He's keeping secrets. I think it's only fair that he shares them after he steered the vote away from Serdoa and to a town player (Old Harry) with words that implied he had something more than his read on Serdoa. I'm also wondering why he didn't confirm that he healed Ryan with the item. I don't see why not, which makes me nervous.
Mmmhm, I agree, actually, or, more likely, I don't like the idea that he made such a claim without a secret.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Blah blah blah, you keep throwing attacks at me, so I answer them. Apparently that's scum behavior. I am guessing not answering questions would be scum behavior as well, let's see-
Quote:And Bob's response to ignore the question until it was asked more forcefully and then shout his refusal to the heavens is, I think, suspicious.
Mhmm, yup, there we go. I'm sure it would make your job easier if I rolled over and let the village mislynch me, but no can do. The idea that I'm being wholly reactive is nonsense anyway; I have consistently gone after you for being self-admitted Serial Killer, and novice for trying to force role-claims and pretending like he was suspicious of me Day 2 when he mentioned no such thing until a couple hours ago today. But obviously you would rather ignore that and continue pretending like defending myself against your ludicrous charges is indicative of an anti-town alignment.
I don't even know what you're talking about, in regards to Serdoa. We currently appear to be voting for different people. Don't blame me that it's obvious you and novice are in bed with each other. You hurl the same tired charges at me post after post while completely ignoring Catwalk, while Novice has suddenly decided I'm scummy coincidentally just as you pick up heat and I call out his scummy role-reveal request, and he also ignores Catwalk and your declared killing powers while pretending like claiming vig is a crime.
And no, I'm not asking anyone to vote for Catwalk right now. Gazglum is a much better pick for SK, being a SK.
(January 23rd, 2014, 19:41)Bobchillingworth Wrote: And no, I'm not asking anyone to vote for Catwalk right now. Gazglum is a much better pick for SK, being a SK.
You know Brick, you did make it difficult for me to answer this line of attack.
My memory, Bob, is that Novice found you scummy after you were found to be a killer and I said I doubted you to be also a vigilante.
I'm still not convinced on Novice's guilt, and nobody is giving a clear enough argument about it. Perhaps he is scum and buddying me. Serdoa has repeatedly talked about me and Novice being a scum team, which I pointed out was unlikely. However clinekd we may seem, its still just not that likely we are both scum. Or that Rowain and Serdoa are. Or you and Zak or anyone. My point was that by pushing the same line, I felt like you were reinforcing Serdoa's apparent paranoia, which was a form of buddying yourself.
Alright, you're right we should look at Catwalk. I agree that he shouldn't be voted today, because there was very little reason for him to claim vigilante as well. So I am very inclined to believe he is telling the truth, especially since I already had a pretty town read on him.
It does prove that there are LOTS of vigilante roles, which is a point in your favour. Maybe we do all have vigilante roles. But that's kind of balanced by the fact that every new vigilante role makes it less likely that we have more. There has to be a limit. Even in a role madness there is a thing as too many vigs, we all kind of felt that when Lewwyn was serial killer that game and we had 4 claimed vigs, but didn't act on it properly. In that case we were right - he was lying.
MJW seems to have retracted his line that he was definitely hit by a townie, but I havent' really followed that. Is that right, MJW?
Even then you still have 4 claimed town killers:
1. Me, the serial electrocuter with a heart of gold
2. Catwalk, the conditional killer
3. Lewwyn, the teleporting doctor
4. You, the straight up vig.
Of those, I believe yours the least. I am a compulsive vigilante. Catwalk said his ability was primed by other actions, so its quite different to mine. Lewwyn's is totally unique, if he's telling the truth. Yours, though, would be just like mine except weaker. I guess from your perspective though, not knowing the truth of mine, you have no reason to see that as a problem.
I do think you're a baddy, but I guess we could wait and see how Lewwyn flips. If he was a serial killer, then that would make it much more believable that you and I could both be vigilantes.
Do you think its impossible we're both town? It feels to me like you've pulled a 180 from the first 2 days. Where is the Bob who weighs up every side of the issue and considers all alternatives? Now its, 'Gazglum has to be a murderer because he murders people, we should lynch him immediately'.
Caught up in the thread. I'd need to see way more to vote for Matt, who as best I can tell was pushed by pre-quit and still possibly SK Lewwyn for meta reasons. Like Gazglum says just above, I'm not even sure I understand the case against Novice. And...then there are the two crazy claims by Bob and Gazglum about vig roles. Is there any reason to vote for one or another at this stage? It's not like they lack for attention on them
Night 1
Bob seems towny. He reiterates his no-lynch logic, asks for no vigilantes and for more contribution.
Day 2
This early post doesn't quite feel right when Bob is now arguing strongly that people should not be claiming.
(January 19th, 2014, 22:14)Bobchillingworth Wrote: If you're a one-shot vig and just blew your load attacking Ryan, consider fessing' up now- I don't want to be playing thinking there's a high likelihood of a third faction / SK if vig stupidity explains the double-wounding.
Having just blown a load on Serdoa, as you say, should I not have claimed? If I didn't, the town would have had a much harder time working out what the vig situation might have been last night. This seems a double standard to me.
- He then joke votes Jowy for not playing his Civ turns
535 is a good post by Bob
Quote:Huh, lots of drama here. If both Lewwyn and Ryan are marked men, Ryan's reveal isn't really going to make a lot of difference. If one or both of them *doesn't* bite it next night, then it's certainly worth looking into in greater depth. But right now I think it's a major distraction, and actually voting to lynch Lewwyn, Catwalk, is really suboptimal play. In what scenario does it make sense to lynch him?
* If he's a wolf (who sacrificed an incredibly valuable strongman-type role), then we should at least give him another night to see if he takes another wound.
* If he's a villager (which I think is the most likely option), then we would not only be wasting today's lynch but also freeing up a scum night-kill, since I assume he would be targeted again.
* If he's a SK or 3rd Faction player, then lynching him is an okay move- except the scum would still have a good reason to target him again anyway. They might deliberately ignore him as part of some psychological gambit, but then he might eliminate one of their clones every night he stays alive. So as in the "if he's a wolf" example, I would advocate waiting until night 2 resolves.
Lynching Lewwyn today, emphasis on today, is anti-town.
I totally agreed with all that.
The Bob follows up with,
Quote:I would also like to see some sort of content out of sunrise, who as Old Harry quoted is apparently deliberately hanging in the back (the admission of which reads a lot like a common wolf ploy of doing something anti-town and then copping to it voluntarily in the hopes that your honesty buys you cover).
True.
Post #542 jumps again, this time to me
Quote:If you want a better target, try Gazglum, who voted for Qg for no reason close to the lynch deadline, and then tried to excuse it at the end of Night 1 by telling Qg that he had apparently always suspected Azza- despite not having voted for him with any frequency.
That's a fair pressure vote, given the circumstances of the Azza lynch, but it does misrepresent what I said (I never said I always suspected Azza, just that I considered him possible scum when considering at deadline).
#584 - Bob votes Ryan for voting Lewwyn, same argument as with Catwalk. But then back to voting me on 587, albeit with a warning that he's not convinced Ryan is clean.
At this point I thought bob making a lot of sense, being helpful. And he was certainly being logical still. But the voting so far is just jokes, pressure, warnings. No actual cases being made.
Post #675 is interesting. This is by Ichabod, saying that he thinks Bob is one of 4 wolves. This is first big attack on Bob for the day.
Quote:I think ChillingBob is playing too chilling and that makes me really, really worried; like he already thinks he won for his evil team. He seems too reasonable, centered and distant - qualities that we never find in proper villagers, who are always crazy or on the brink of madness (I love this game jive ).
#685 - The deadline is approaching. Old Harry in clear lead (already 6 votes or something), with Novice a way behind. It's looking like curtains for Harry. Bob climbs aboard the Old Harry train and votes. He hadn't really commented on Old Harry through the day, but now
Quote:I'll vote for Old Harry as well, at least for now. Sorry man, but I think you're scum who made an ill-advised desperate play to save Azza Day 1, and has been stuck afterwards trying to keep your head above water.
Obviously, I agreed here entirely (we're like blood brothers Bob, in hunting and killing!). But Bob didn't involve himself in the Harry case at all, he just came onto it at the end.
In the same post, Bob adds that Xenu is pretty scummy. Bob's been throwing a lot of that around at this point today - Xenu, Catwalk, Ryan, me. Not trying to build a serious case on any of us, just pointing out a bit of scumminess around.
- #691 is a good post against Jowy,
Quote:Jowy Wrote:
Also, why are you suddenly so hesitant to roleblock Lewwyn? I'll tell you what it looks like to me. It looks like you only offered to roleblock him to save him from a lynch, and now that the storm is past, you wanna let him roam free the next night. You know, the guy that you claim you don't trust. Makes me wonder what you're really up to.
Are you joking? First of all, I don't think Lewwyn was ever going to hang today- I think at most he has had two votes on him, one being yours. The idea that I'm desperately trying to save him from the noose is absurd- I'm trying to prevent you and Ryan from wasting your votes on a bad Day 2 play (and get away with not contributing in the process). I am hesitant to block him because he has claimed to be a doctor! Now, granted, he's allegedly a doctor who wounds if he guesses wrong, but if I don't block him there is a chance he could save himself or Ryan, which could make the scum miss a night kill if they choose wrong (assuming neither is a wolf), or make them go for a wounding on someone else instead of finishing off a villager. If I block him, unless we have another doctor there's no saving him or Ryan. He could still be a SK or other killer scum role, this is absolutely within the realm of possibility, and I am completely willing to block him, if that's what the village wants- but I want to make sure that IS what people want. If a dozen people tell me that scrubbing Lewwyn is a bad idea, I'm going to hold off, regardless of your shrill protestations otherwise. It's a public power and we have hours left before I have to submit a target, and I'm not fond of you demanding I blast Lewwyn right now without even explaining my thoughts on the subject.
And I don't trust anyone, Jowy, not fully. This is WW.
That's reasonable.
#744 - Mattimeo makes a case against Bob for being Mr Reasonable and playing all sides.
(January 21st, 2014, 16:49)Mattimeo Wrote: I'm going to go [color#ff0101]Bobchillingworth[/color] again. A good number of his posts contain arguments that I fundamentally disagree with - and that's it's impossible to call him on due to the fact he *always* covers his back by looking at both sides. There's continual statements of facts or ideas that are just flat out *wrong*, several of which are explicitly mentioned in BRick's posts to start the thread. This continued duality of opinion seemed really odd, until I realised that it resulted in basically everyone coming away with the idea that they agreed with Bob, almost dismissing the aspects where he was just flat out incorrect for the points where he confirmed their view. Seems to be mostly working as a way to fly under the rader while ensuring the dissemination of false data.
I'm not sure why you're so obsessed with me, except I guess it's easier than making meaningful votes.
Claiming that I have "continually" made false statements is simply a lie. I forgot about Brick's "errata" concerning how double-night kills on the same person resolved, I admitted this and adjusted my assumptions accordingly. Mistakes happen, it's time to move on with your life. If I have been wrong about something else, kindly point it out.
You're also wrong about the duality charge, or at least misunderstanding the point of sometimes voicing alternatives. I'm not some dumb cowboy who is going to charge off after the first idea in his head without giving a rationale. I'm not going to go block (or ignore) Lewwyn using a public power without going over what I see as the pros and cons. I'm not going to demand vigs hold their first night fire without giving an explanation. I play this way in every game, village, wolf or otherwise. But I have and will continue to advocate for specific actions, like the first-day "no lynch" idea or vigs staying first-night fire- that I have taken the time to acknowledge possible flaws with my own plans doesn't mean I haven't taken stands. I don't even know what you want from me, to be honest. When I first proposed the "no lynch" plan you missed the part where I talked about potential issues (specifically wolves targeting one of their own), and then criticized me for the alleged omission. Now you're going after me for providing too many alternative takes.
You want me to dispense with the "duality", fine: I think you're probably scum and definitely worthless, and these votes are your way to avoid contributing to the village while disguising the fact that you have posted almost nothing of value behind a wall of contrarianism.
But the fact is Bob that most of your detailed discussions have been about meta or strategy. You are finding poor ideas in other posts and knocking them down. You are hammering bad villageryness, but not going after scum. It's good stuff, but it's all one remove from the actual core of the game - finding scum and building a case against them. THAT is what you haven't been doing. Show me your big scumhunting posts before the pressure came down on you.
Night 2
Ichabod again pointed Bob as a leading scum, then Jowy and Bob got into a massive squabble. I would say Jowy started it, so helpfully distracting as it may have been, I cant' say its a clear scum tell on the Bobster.
Post 868: Bob, you said you thought Jowy was probably scum. What's the case there?
Then we're up to now. The Bob files are closed.
I think you've played a good game, but rereading I think its a good scum game. I know I have some confirmation bias, because a lot of my life now depends on that being true. So I would like others to think about it and give their thoughts too.
(January 23rd, 2014, 13:28)Catwalk Wrote: And given that we know there are mutants around (shown by the presence of anti mutant cream), mutants sound a lot like recruiters.
'Mutant' abilities are the individual powers each person has.
(January 23rd, 2014, 14:31)novice Wrote: On that note, Mattimeo you might want to be explicit in your claim as well.
Nah, I'm good. I have no new information about the activities or alignment of anyone, and the current situation is hilarious enough without me interjecting any more chaos today
Though, you seem rather insistent about people claiming roles in general. More than I recall you being in previous games. What's different this time?
(January 23rd, 2014, 15:02)Qgqqqqq Wrote: Please, no-one reveal further. I will make a post shortly about what I believe we should do, but suffice to say I think we need to control what is happening with the reveals.
If you insist
Also, after my focus for the last two days, I'd be pretty hypocritical to not vote bobchillingworth today, now that he's actually getting traction from other sources.
Main level of hesitation I have is novice being on the wagon, but given the prevailing theory of multiple factions, that seems less relevant.
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Always, somewhere,
someone is fighting for you.
-- As long as you remember her,
you are not alone.
