WW 31 Game Thread PARANOIA

[MJW (ya that one)]

So what was "traffic cop"?

Bob and Gaz could both be wolfs; with catwalk being the only real vig.

[Rowain]

@Gazglum

You are quite eager to defend novice and answer posts for him.

Three points Rowain.

1. Of course Serdoa handed you the doc bot. Why is that a particular village tell? A communist wants to do his best to publicly present a Troubleshooter facade. Especially a communist who is tetering on the edge of being lynched. In what world wouldn't a scum player, Serdoa or anyone, do the best he could to handle the items as townily as possible? It's better to keep a scum alive than get lynched because you picked a slightly sub-optimal item to mildly damage the town.

Gaz: He handed it to a villager after he tracked him. He could have easily handed the item to scum or use another item.
But so far he has handed out defense items and given it to players he believed to be villagers. And that is more villagerish than anything done by you or novice or nearly all others. And I asked explicitly to give him peace for some days but not for all eternity.

2. Novice wants to hear the competing vigilante claims so he can judge them. Since we all seem to be agreed that either Bob or me are lying, there is a logic to that. That's not the same as calling for a full role dump, or Novice giving his own.

No he askes for all roles. He asks after my role, he pressures Serdoa into revealing more than he should have done and so on . In short he is collecting a lot of information for his scum-buddies.

3. I don't really remember what the third point was. But while I'm here, I personally think a serial killer or second faction seems likely. Otherwise we have 3 vigilante kills, plus me claiming I was blocked on an additional one Night 1, and that after people were advised NOT to use vigilante abilities in the night.

I repeat. Everybody who got hurt has visited Lewwyn. IMO we should wait with speculation about multiplescum etc until we know Lewwyns role and power.


novice

[zakalwe]

MJW, the Traffic Cop could set up a road block between two players, preventing them from targeting each other. It came with a nice back story of being a Cop who was demoted for his habit of publicly lynching his suspects, which fit nicely with another legitimate claim in that game, about a Serial killer who was reformed and turned good. (Heh, sound familiar?)

But the reason you should lynch him over me is if you think he is scum and I am not. And the reason you might think that is because he was forced into his claim by Ryan, and I was not.

Terrible argument, as Bob rightly points out.

I think you've played a good game, but rereading I think its a good scum game.

Heh, I really don't mean to be disparaging, but this conclusion is kind of wimpy. You do get points for your efforts, though. (Kind of impossible to convey the right tone here, so just give me the benefit of the doubt.)

I do wonder where you were going with the "is it impossible we're both town" line of thought. Who would you lynch if we agreed to let both of you live today?

[Catwalk]

I don't believe your explanation Rowain. I don't know what you're hiding, but I don't think you're telling the truth. I think you're either backtracking and making up an explanation now, or you have other information you're not revealing. Do you at the very least not agree that your prior recommendation reeked of special information that it was unwise to reveal at the time? I'm not asking for specifics, just wanted to know whether there is more information or not. Your unwillingness to answer makes me suspect that the information is suspicious, and related to being 3rd party. I still don't think you're a communist.

[Serdoa]

I commend the effort put in by Gazglum into going through all posts from Bob. But if the gist of it is: I think several of them are good, he was helpful and his tips were pro-village (don't lynch D1, don't kill N1) - but he didn't build a case on someone then I have to say that is sorely lacking for an argument to lynch someone. We have several players that fit that description without the pro-village stuff. And some which do even add to the "no case build" with "suggested anti-village stuff". See novice and his interest in claims for example.

So why not look at those Gazglum, instead of defending them? I agree with Bob, your "case" on him read heavily like you assumed it would be between him and you and so you tried to build up something, despite feeling yourself that there wasn't really much. It's basically the same as D2 when you stated that it was suspicious that I did not go against Old Harry but instead touched him with the "innocent brush". But I don't go against a target I feel is innocent, just to save myself. I'll vote for it, because in the end I know my alignment and I can only guess his, but I won't campaign for his lynch, even if that's the way that most likely would succeed in saving me. No, I will lobby for both of us and go against whomever I feel deserves the lynch.

Now, as I stated above, your play is reminiscent to D2, so I can believe that you do it because that's how you play. Nonetheless the other points I mentioned (your defense of novice, your own admission to be an SK aligned with village, you having to kill no matter what) are still in my book enough to vote for you. But not now. Because right now I think novice is even more scummy than you.

But despite that, one point I'd like to make about the vig-claims:

Bob claimed limited Vig and we don't believe that role exists as that. He now points out that there is more to it. I'm inclined to believe him, for a statement that he made D2. He asked the vig who shot N1 to confess and asked specifically for a one-shot vig. I think that was his own role-limitation shining through and him believing that someone else has limited shots as well and probably shot because he feared to die.

[Mattimeo]

I repeat. Everybody who got hurt has visited Lewwyn. IMO we should wait with speculation about multiplescum etc until we know Lewwyns role and power.

Everybody who was hurt last night visited Lewwyn; but not everybody who visited Lewwyn last night got hurt. It seems more like coincidence to me.
Agreed that waiting 'til we know what he was and what he did before we start extrapolating based on that would be a good idea, though.

[Ryan]

I am willing to concede on Gagzulm lynch.

[zakalwe]

I repeat. Everybody who got hurt has visited Lewwyn. IMO we should wait with speculation about multiplescum etc until we know Lewwyns role and power.

Ok, this didn't really sink in with me before, but that's an interesting observation. Mattimeo visited Lewwyn and did not get hurt, though. And Q got hurt on the night after visiting him, if I understand correctly. So I'm not sure if that pattern is actually significant.

What do you mean by "willing to concede", Ryan?

[Serdoa]

I don't believe your explanation Rowain. I don't know what you're hiding, but I don't think you're telling the truth. I think you're either backtracking and making up an explanation now, or you have other information you're not revealing. Do you at the very least not agree that your prior recommendation reeked of special information that it was unwise to reveal at the time? I'm not asking for specifics, just wanted to know whether there is more information or not. Your unwillingness to answer makes me suspect that the information is suspicious, and related to being 3rd party. I still don't think you're a communist.

catwalk, if there is more to it, why would he tell you today if he didn't yesterday? Lets assume he is what you seem to have interpreted in his words: a seer. And lets assume he had a result on me but his words yesterday didn't reveal that, why would he now? I'm not even close to the best target today, so telling anything more can only hurt.

Also in my opinion you should rather question why anyone would be insisting on a reveal about that today, when there is no real need. That would only help the commies to decide if they have to kill him or not.

@zak: N2 Lewwyn was visited by me, Q, Mattimeo and MJW. Of us 4 we have 3 that got hurt (Q, MJW, I) and 1 who had an anti-mutant-spray IIRC that did not. If he didn't use it there is still the possibility of him getting protected by someone who agreed on my D1-read (and on that note: Mattimeo, please step it up a notch ).

[Rowain]

Mattimeo visited Lewwyn and did not get hurt, though.

Did Matt visit Lewwyn? Must have missed that post.

And Q got hurt on the night after visiting him, if I understand correctly.

Nope Qg visited him this night (that's why Lewwyn would have had 2 shots next night). Qg visited Serdoa on N1