WW 31 Game Thread PARANOIA

[Qgqqqqq]

Damn, sorry Gazglum

To be honest, though, this business with Rowain concerns me more right now than Gazglum -- there's something missing here and we really need to know more about his power, or what he's up to. The Serdoa super-BFFness is really strange to me and I didn't trust Serdoa to begin with. I just don't see how both of them can be so sure the other is town. Maybe I missed a lot skimming these posts so quickly but something doesn't add up there.

Spacetyrantxenu

He's already offline so clearly you will not be pressuring a claim out of him today. So you're looking for the reveal that will come in his death, and that's not the action of someone who thinks there's something missing and you need to know more. This is the post of someone who's being told in a scum thread that they need to come and help with the lynch, thus there is a short post moving onto a useful target via reciprocating arguements others have used, never mind if they are no longer relevant or he has not expressed that opinion before. Meanwhile above there is fluff padding it out - genuine message no matter what you're alignment space, avoid the fun roleplay and the ComOff stuff if you don't have much time to post, especially after injesting that volume of postage - and a weak "I would lynch Gazglum because of his role" which conveniently fails to give any tells on what he actually thinks Gazglum's alignment is. Basically I'm reading a Gazglum and Space scumpair here quite strongly, especially with the line about how Gazglum maybe should die because of his role as it is a common scumtactic to put a fellow scum as someone that maybe should be lynched but instead lets lynch someone else, as it allows him to either bus if needed or at least not look as if he was opposing a scum lynch.
Also interesting to note that one of the reasons he votes Rowain is because of him not claiming and wanting to shed some light on his role, but in his ComOff text he swings an entirely different route saying that claims are not what we are here to do. I believe the latter is a genuine view on his part and that the first part is simply because he needs an excuse to move to Rowain.


Oh and just a little something for everyone jumping up and down on the "Serdoa super-BFFness". I personally see both Rowain and Serdoa as very strong town, and if I had thought that Serdoa was in genuine danger of the lynch I would have made a similar post to what Rowain did. For that matter, I strongly believe that Rowain is town, and I see no reason for us to lynch him today.

This is what's infuriating about this goddamned game. I have not had time to play this week. You guys that hang around the forum all the time, you usually see me poking my head into threads all over the place during the day as I steal a minute here and there. I know we can't use forum info to condemn people around here but I'll use it to speak for myself. I literally did not have time to look over this thread today and I did it anyway right before I left work. I had my wife all kinds of mad at me for being late getting home and I took the time to do my minimum requirement and vote, post my CO statement, and TRY to participate. If you want to hang me over it, Qgqqqqq then do it. I'm obviously no WW player, at least not at this time in my work schedule, or until I change employers. This game is fun, trying to solve the puzzles is fun, but meta bullshit about "oh look, Xenu is obviously a wolf following orders, har har har, look he only stops by for a cup of tea!" because I tried to participate SOME before deadline....yeah, I don't need all that.

Calm down man, you're reading way too much into this. Let's try to unpack what I'm saying to you, as you seem to have taken what I said very differently from my intention.

He's already offline so clearly you will not be pressuring a claim out of him today.

This is what drew my interest, and from there I looked at the entire post and speculated as to what had happened. Nevertheless, this was the bad egg that took my notice - as while there's a chance you would be back on it seemed less likely given what's happened previously - so you were leaving a vote on someone who a) had just logged off, and thus couldn't have responded to the pressure which seemed to be the main reason behind your vote and b) someone who I have a strong village tell. I then take things to the logical conclusion and ask myself why did you vote if not for pressure:

So you're looking for the reveal that will come in his death, and that's not the action of someone who thinks there's something missing and you need to know more.

And notice what I believe to be a inconsistency. If there is a further explanation for this, I welcome it, but I wasn't seeing one. And therefore I associate it to something I've seen in the past:

This is the post of someone who's being told in a scum thread that they need to come and help with the lynch, thus there is a short post moving onto a useful target via reciprocating arguements others have used, never mind if they are no longer relevant or he has not expressed that opinion before.

Here is where I believe you took offence. However, it wasn't intended!
Here is what I was believing had happened - scum-Gazglum is near the lynch. Scum-space doesn't have much time on his hands, is unable to find time to vote/post the earlier, and now, waking up, sees his scumbuddies encouraging him to make a quick vote for one of the alternatives so that they have their options open. He quickly composes a vote and response to the major issues that have been going on, landing him on Rowain but avoiding a opinion on Gazglum (possibly subconsciously) because he is not sure what will be most townish. Scum-space doesn't have the time to think about this much, thus the problems I pointed out in its internal consistency. Given Gazglums flip this scenario is much less likely of course, but at the time I was strongly seeing red on Gazlgum.
I don't think it's a criticism to say that it sounded like it was prompted by a scum thread post and the vote resulted from that, but it certainly wasn't intended as such - this sort of play has happened in the past and I thought that was what it sounded like.

Meanwhile above there is fluff padding it out - genuine message no matter what you're alignment space, avoid the fun roleplay and the ComOff stuff if you don't have much time to post, especially after injesting that volume of postage - and a weak "I would lynch Gazglum because of his role" which conveniently fails to give any tells on what he actually thinks Gazglum's alignment is.

Genuine message was intended as such - I understand what it's like to not have enough time to properly respond to what's happened, and while I enjoy the roleplay the fun tone of your posts I thought a way to allow you to have more time to reply in more depth would be to drop it.

Basically I'm reading a Gazglum and Space scumpair here quite strongly, especially with the line about how Gazglum maybe should die because of his role as it is a common scumtactic to put a fellow scum as someone that maybe should be lynched but instead lets lynch someone else, as it allows him to either bus if needed or at least not look as if he was opposing a scum lynch.
Also interesting to note that one of the reasons he votes Rowain is because of him not claiming and wanting to shed some light on his role, but in his ComOff text he swings an entirely different route saying that claims are not what we are here to do. I believe the latter is a genuine view on his part and that the first part is simply because he needs an excuse to move to Rowain.

I stand by this. (The first part in context and the latter remains)

The insert defense ______ thing is because I don't knw all the other roles besides vigilantes and serial killers there are in this game. You experts, you can fill in the other possible roles.

My problem was not that you didn't list possible roles, it was that you didn't mention the possibility that either was scum, which I took as minor tell that you didn't want scum associated with either of the vigs.

I wrote that in 3 minutes before I left for home after staying too late catching up and trying to participate. This post isn't pro- or anti- anything, it's angry Xenu for you going meta bullshit reasons on me. If you think I'm a wolf then lynch me for it. If you think I'm a townie then don't. But I'm doing all I can to keep up with this game, don't poop on me for trying.

So now that I've gone through my post I would just like to say that I really think you misunderstood what I was driving at and I really wasn't criticizing your schedule or the time that you have available. I just saw what you'd written and thought it was strange and then looked further and found it sat well with you as scum in the situation you are in, especially with a Gazglum scum-buddy. Obviously that is different now, but I would still be interested to hear your response to my post, in particular your suspicions on Rowain and why you voted him.
I would also like to apologize deeply for any offense I caused. I didn't mean to in any way criticize you for your schedule or the time you give to werewolf, and if I gave that impression I am truly sorry.

Xenu, he could be scum who are bound by their role to come up with lies to get you killed
Don't let it get you down!

Do tell Jowy. I love to hear when I've been lying.

[Catwalk]

I think that was a bit of a bastard role to give Gazglum. But frankly, your little RP interlude didn't help things any

[novice]

"Rowain is not a scum for all I know and shouldn't be lynched right now."

The kiss of death...

Serdoa, maybe I'm slow but I don't see how you following Rowain can give him info that you're town.

Yeah, isn't that what I said? I know what he did N1 and so I know that he was not visiting me, so he can't have info on me.

Wait, so you've known all along that he has no info on me? Why have you objected to me questioning Rowain on this then?

Serdoa, please answer this.

[Serdoa]

novice, I get the feeling we talk past each other. I said I tracked Rowain N1 and therefore know that he was not visiting me. Now you seem to ask me if I knew all the time that he has no info on you? But my statements did not in any way ever imply that I knew or not that he has information on you.

Or did you, similar to catwalk, mix up the... um, personal pronoun I think it is? Did you mean to ask if I knew all the time that he had no information on me? And if so why I was still objecting you questioning him? In that case: Yes, I knew it all along, which, given that I know I am a villager, made me even more certain that he is very likely town. Well, and given that I know that he wasn't killing on N1.

[MJW (ya that one)]

I'm pretty sure that at least one of Bob and Catwalk is a wolf. Two vigs are too much with a village sk and there's third faction too. Bob is more likely as catwalk came forward and Bob was not willing to full reveal. Also, me being a night-target would be helpful to bob as he would not have to backtrack. Needless to say anyone else who can kill has a very high chance of being wolf and should be auto-lynched. We might even no-lynch to exploit this even more. Unless catwalk is the real sk him clamming vig makes no sense at all so he's the only killer that should not be auto-lynched.

Catwalk should post his actions right before the flip from now on though.

After we take out the killers I'm pretty sure there are wolfs on azza. I'm pretty sure he was not bussed due to his "goodbye" post and it's not in his nature to use Meta BS. Novice is by far the worst but the others a bit marginal too. All these lynches should take us to the endgame.

[novice]

Or did you, similar to catwalk, mix up the... um, personal pronoun I think it is? Did you mean to ask if I knew all the time that he had no information on me? And if so why I was still objecting you questioning him?

That's what I meant to ask, yes. I corrected my typo in my next post.

In that case: Yes, I knew it all along, which, given that I know I am a villager, made me even more certain that he is very likely town. Well, and given that I know that he wasn't killing on N1.

You think a town player without out of thread info is the most likely explanation for someone declaring you innocent? How would he know that you're innocent?

To the extent that you found my questioning of Rowain scummy and actively did everything you could to let Rowain not have to answer my questions?

[MJW (ya that one)]

Rowain and serdoa are the most natural scry target because they are very likely to be on the same team. A 2 for 1.

night

[zakalwe]

MJW - You mean there are wolves on Q, right? Knowing my own and Lewwyn's alignment, I agree that Azza wasn't bussed. Bob could be a wolf who was trapped there, though. Or SK.

Do you think we should mass claim tomorrow?

[MJW (ya that one)]

MJW - You mean there are wolves on Q, right? Knowing my own and Lewwyn's alignment, I agree that Azza wasn't bussed. Bob could be a wolf who was trapped there, though. Or SK.

Do you think we should mass claim tomorrow?

There might be wolfs on Azza. For example, bob could have voted azza for cover and might have gotten stuck because azza went AWOL.

Bob or Catwalk needs to die-- Tomorrow and I don't see how a mass claim could change anything. But a massclaim might be a good idea. We can talk about it tomorrow anyway. We should probably pre-set the order so the wolfs just cannot go last.

It's quite scummy of bob to say that he would rather die than reveal and then scrub himself.

night

[Serdoa]

@novice

I was searching through D2 and stumbled across these two posts from you:

Old Harry, that defense is so terrible it's almost a town tell. I'd rather have your unoriginal, truthful thoughts than manufactured original ones. And your flip would provide a lot of information, unfortunately for you.

Knowing Old Harry's alignment would help clear up the Old Harry-Q-Catwalk-Ichabod connection.

Please let us know what he learned now about the Old Harry-Q-catwalk-Ichabod connection (and where this connection actually was established, as I can't remember to what that refers).