WW 31 Game Thread PARANOIA

[Catwalk]

Notes: Scum only wins if they obtain a majority. I don't know what happens if it goes 1-1. I know scum faction won't win for sure, but we might lose as well if that happens.

Scum win at 1-1 as the day will be a tie and the villager will be killed at night.

[Serdoa]

What a pity. Can we lynch both BRick?

novice, how long are you around today?

[Catwalk]

I won't be around much longer, and I need to know if I should drop my suggestion for a compromise candidate. What do you make of it Serdoa?

[Serdoa]

It's not making sense, either you or xenu.

[Catwalk]

Then I'm sticking with spacetyrantxenu, hoping novice will come around to it. And with that, I'm off for bed in a few minutes.

[spacetyrantxenu]

Note: this post is replying to Catwalk @2198, sorry for not putting in quote boxes but this is hard to do in a cubicle at work with people walking up all the time. So I typed it in notepad instead of in the forum webpage.

OK so if there isn't a redirector anymore then we're down to two options, that one or the other of us is lying. As my only remaining power in this game is my vote, I have no reason to fabricate fake claims against you. You, however, have the power to KILL, which is a lot scummier than me being unable to do anything other than catch you in a lie. And around in circles we go, I suppose.

Trying to move the lynch onto someone else smacks of "live and let live", which stinks all to hell to me. If there's no redirector then one of us is lying, so one of us has to be lynched. I don't know how else to convey the truth here -- someone ask me questions, or something, I can't show you the PM Brick sent me with the word "Absorption." on it. I just, again, point to my track record of being honest in these reveals. Contrast that against Catwalk's staggered reveal before, which doesn't seem so honest.

"Given that I'm a communist"

No, it's not a given that I'm a communist. Where's your proof? You're writing a lot and not saying anything of substance regarding me or what I've done that shows me to be scum. I've caught you in a lie, which is I dare say a lot more than you've done for the town. And I gave away my reads early in the game, something which was a fairly roundly criticized action. So why should I make the same "mistake" twice?

Is your admission of having a kill role somehow proof that YOU'RE not a communist? No, it isn't, but it seems more likely that you are one than I am for simply being unable to prove that I'm not. That's the "you're guilty because you can't prove you're innocent" argument. No one can "prove" they aren't a communist until they're dead and Brick reveals the role PM. So that's a little red herring, you're asking the wrong question to lead to the wrong answer, whether you're doing it deliberately or not.

I don't see how I was any more or less likely than anyone else to get lynched today if I had kept quiet and sat on my findings. All that would guarantee is that you wouldn't have been questioned about the lie I caught you in. Now tell me, if you received a PM from a role scan you had done showing someone had lied, wouldn't the town thing to do be to investigate the discrepancy? I fail to see how ignoring that information would have helped the town. I'm not trying to mislynch anyone. I'm trying to lynch you for lying. And I don't buy in the slightest that your role is important or powerful in the end game when the wolves only have to ignore you to rob you of any power, if you're telling the truth.

[spacetyrantxenu]

It's not making sense, either you or xenu.

What doesn't make sense about what I'm doing? Maybe I'm not arguing the case very well, but here's the facts:

Catwalk claimed a role named Paranoia (suspiciously like the name of our game). I scanned him last night and got a PM result from Brick with one word as a result (the same format as all my previous scan results) that said "Absorption." So Catwalk's claimed name does not match what Brick reported. Therefore, one of us has to be lying about it. If I was scum and on a witch hunt, wouldn't it make more sense to ignore Catwalk and go after someone who has been useful to the town? I'm not scum, I'm just attacking Catwalk because he lied. That's all there is to it. He lied, and that's scum behavior.

Please help me ask the right question to make sense of this, if I'm not making the right case here. What else am I supposed to do with a disagreeing role claim/scan result?

[Jowy]

Catwalk let's hope it's simple :P

[Catwalk]

As my only remaining power in this game is my vote, I have no reason to fabricate fake claims against you.

I think that's actually an excellent reason for fabricating a claim against me.

Trying to move the lynch onto someone else smacks of "live and let live", which stinks all to hell to me.

If I can't hang you tonight, I much prefer hanging one of Qg, Ichabod and sunrise. It's possible that night events will reveal to everyone that you're the liar. I don't think that plan stinks.

I just, again, point to my track record of being honest in these reveals.

I believe your track record, but it means nothing. You used it to establish that you had an ability, then set up a mislynch on me.

Contrast that against Catwalk's staggered reveal before, which doesn't seem so honest.

Why would I reveal all details of my ability right away when doing so gives communists information I don't want them to have? It's standard play to not reveal more than you have to, I was even asked not to reveal the rest of my role. I then made a full reveal later on when requested.

No, it's not a given that I'm a communist. Where's your proof?

My proof is that you fabricated a night result against me. I know for a fact that you're lying (barring redirectors and such), and the only reason for you to lie is that you're a communist. What else do you expect me to say? I know that the only way I can share that proof is by hanging, but I much prefer proving it by seeing you hang instead.

Is your admission of having a kill role somehow proof that YOU'RE not a communist? No, it isn't, but it seems more likely that you are one than I am for simply being unable to prove that I'm not. That's the "you're guilty because you can't prove you're innocent" argument. No one can "prove" they aren't a communist until they're dead and Brick reveals the role PM. So that's a little red herring, you're asking the wrong question to lead to the wrong answer, whether you're doing it deliberately or not.

There's a strawman if ever I saw one. Neither one of us has proof we can share. I know you're lying, and you're obviously going to stick with your story.

I don't see how I was any more or less likely than anyone else to get lynched today if I had kept quiet and sat on my findings. All that would guarantee is that you wouldn't have been questioned about the lie I caught you in. Now tell me, if you received a PM from a role scan you had done showing someone had lied, wouldn't the town thing to do be to investigate the discrepancy? I fail to see how ignoring that information would have helped the town. I'm not trying to mislynch anyone. I'm trying to lynch you for lying. And I don't buy in the slightest that your role is important or powerful in the end game when the wolves only have to ignore you to rob you of any power, if you're telling the truth.

I'm not arguing that a town seer would have acted differently. Your night result itself is not why I'm arguing you should hang. I know for myself that you're lying, and that's why I'm doing everything I can to see you hang instead. I have pointed out several reasons why it would IMO be more plausible to a neutral bystander that you're the liar. I'm not seeing you do the same.

Why do you disagree that my role is powerful in the end game, though? I have presented several arguments for this, and you completely ignore them with "I don't buy that in the slightest"? Having a confirmed villager in the end game is poison for scum. Having 3 confirmed villagers would be lethal, especially when the town may also have a healer.

As for your last post, you would have been blown out of the water if you'd tried to pin this on a villager with town cred. I concede that you picked a good target gambit, and I hope it won't work for you. I have to run off, I hope I will live to see tomorrow.

[Serdoa]

xenu, my post you quoted was directed at catwalk and his idea of a compromise candidate (so neither you nor him). I don't think there is much more you can do right now. You gave your information and it is on us to decide what to do with it.