[Spoiler] RB Pitboss #2 - Shaka of Rome

[Whosit]

Turn 45 has been played. Going a bit slower than I would have hoped. It doesn't look like I'll have Animal Husbandry finished by Monday unless things pick up.

Anyway, little to report. Thannis will be fully healed next turn, so he can continue exploring the northeast and try to make contact with someone. Bib Fortuna is making progress scouting Korea (more on that in a bit) and a Korean Warrior, produced a couple of turns ago according to my numbers, seems to be heading in my direction. Plako is probably going to scout out Regals Reach. Borders won't pop in time to stop it, unfortunately. Oh, if only I were Creative.

As you lurkers surely know, Seoul performed a 2-pop whip on Turn 44 and my numbers indicated a total of 80 hammers invested in the city. I've been trying to figure out what that was, and I think that I've figured it out. I'm quite certain that they whipped a Worker. Combining the overflow from their last Warrior with the food and production the city was making adds up to about 20 hammers. That's just short enough to force a 2-pop whip, which would then create 60 more hammers. They should have 20 hammer overflow this turn. Will that go into a Warrior, a Barracks, or something else? Hopefully I will know soon.

I am also starting to believe that Korea does not have Copper. Bib Fortuna has revealed a mined hill to the west of Seoul, devoid of metal. In a couple more turns, I should know more. It also appears, from fog-gazing, that the tiles directly south and southwest of Seoul are coastal. Rather, they are water tiles. Furthermore, the location where my Settler originally appeared seems to lack metal. Considering that this map was produced by a member of the Realms Beyond group, which I believe is a fair-minded community, and considering that both our locations have itty-bitty rivlettes and furs (and assuming all starting locations are roughly equal), I now doubt that Seoul has Copper in the BFC. Another turn or two should confirm that.

I also doubt that P'yongyang has Copper. None is visible, and I lack visibility only on two tiles, I believe, that would be in the BFC. Both of those unexplored tiles appear to have forest cover (fog-gazing), which most likely means no metal. Again, I intend to confirm this. Once Bib has scouted out Seoul, he'll head north and try to get on one of those northern hills before P'yongyang expands borders (getting city visibility will finally let me see production in the espionage screen, which will be invaluable).

Now, if my assumptions are correct, and Korea has not yet obtained metal, that leads to more questions. Are they unaware that Regals Reach will have Copper in the BFC? If not, did they feel comfortable settling a second city that appears to have no metal? Do they lack visibility of any metal sites? Do they have AH and visibility of horses (no, I haven't been keeping good track of exactly which techs they have been learning)?

If they are aware that I will soon have metal, then the questions become even stranger. I have not had the impression that they trust me. Do they simply lack Copper anywhere close enough that's reasonable to settle? Do they somehow believe that I will leave them alone? Are they insane?

I don't know enough about the lands to the west to be certain what's there. My best-case-scenario leaves them with no metal at all, and I have Iron, so conquering them will be a cake-walk. They may have Horses, though. Perhaps even Iron. There are plenty of blank grassland tiles for those resources to appear. I'm fairly certain that they do not have Iron Working, though. And I don't think that they have the Wheel yet, unless building roads just hasn't been a priority for them.

Also, Athlete's score jumped from 88 to 103. What is that about? Did he research Iron Working? Do Classical techs give such a huge score boost? Settling a second city isn't enough for that. I'm quite perplexed.

In other news, I'm thinking of shooting Broker and plako a friendly e-mail. Might as well keep communications open. Saying nothing at all after finalizing that deal could be as diplomatically dangerous as not signing anything at all. I figure it'll be along the lines of something like "Belated congratulations on your second city. Perhaps we are the first? blah blah blah. By the way, have you met any other civilizations yet? My scouts have only met hungry animals."

Just shooting the breeze is the plan.

Not much else to say at the moment. The domestic plan is going about as expected. I kind of have a nightmare scenario where that Korean Warrior pillages my copper road before it is in my borders. That would make me very angry. If he moves directly to that tile, he can make it a couple turns before the border pops. I doubt that plako would do that. That would be an act of war, though I wouldn't necessarily be in a position to do much about it, unless I chose to attack with Warriors. Of course, that assumes he knows the location and moves directly there. So it's unlikely.

[novice]

I like your thought processes and your sharing of them. Interesting metareasoning concerning metal at the capitals. Also interesting to see you speculating on your neighbours' sanity

[SleepingMoogle]

Also, Athlete's score jumped from 88 to 103. What is that about? Did he research Iron Working? Do Classical techs give such a huge score boost? Settling a second city isn't enough for that. I'm quite perplexed.

Athlete and Kalin are the only team with a Creative leader (William). The score increase most likely comes from a border pop in turn 25 (4/turn), as the points for the land get added 20 turns after that.

[Whosit]

Athlete and Kalin are the only team with a Creative leader (William). The score increase most likely comes from a border pop in turn 25 (4/turn), as the points for the land get added 20 turns after that.

Thanks, I forgot how that worked. That's a bit comforting, then.

I like your thought processes and your sharing of them. Interesting metareasoning concerning metal at the capitals. Also interesting to see you speculating on your neighbours' sanity

I can only assume that they are making rational decisions, but you never know. Well, you know, but I am speaking figuratively. Nothing has led me to believe that they are incompetent players (no Templar neighbors for me), so I can only believe that I lack enough information to make reasonable guesses.

Here's the message I am sending out:

Dear plako and Broker33,

I am glad to see that Korea is thriving. I would like to offer belated congratulations on founding your second city. I cannot be certain, of course, but I believe that we may be among the first to expand.

I was also wondering if you have had any luck in locating other civilizations. So far, my scouts have encountered nothing but hungry animals. It almost appears as though we are the only two peoples in the world, but I find that hard to believe. I am trying to remain optimistic, but the world seems large, so there is much ground to cover yet.

Best regards,

Whosit, Ruler of the Interim Imperium

Yes, the role playing is not internally consistent (on the one hand, I say we may be the first to settle; on the other, I question whether or not anyone else is out there), but that should hardly matter. Or, if nothing else, make plako question my own competency. Probably not, but whatever.

I want to know who else is nearby so that I can start making more diplomatic plans. I'm terrified of Sullla's team, of course: I'm sure that a combination of Liz's strong economic traits and the Fast Worker, he'll build a runaway economy. The Inca must be nearby, because they took out Mortius, but I haven't run into them, either. Guess we'll see.

The recent score jump notwithstanding, I'm still somehow near the lead in score, and Imperial Center has remained on the top 5 cities list. I'm not quite sure why, though, I thought that it had to do with how much culture was there, and it can't have that much.

I'm not leading in any demographic categories, though I'm second in a few. I'm hoping that I will gain a production lead as Regals Reach matures.

[Whosit]

Y'know, LiPing may have been right. This may be a doughnut map. Thannis has found what I believe may be Mortius' starting location. I'll confirm next turn if I turn up any city ruins. But there are furs, a river nub, etc. And it's the same distance from my own original spot as the Koreans are. About 11 tiles. So it'll be at least 11 more turns until I meet the Inca, perhaps.

Scouted more of Seoul's area. There is coast, and it appears an offshore island, just like near my start spot. No Copper in sight. I'll have my Scout swing by P'yongyang, then head northwest, hoping to find whoever's next in line.

Pictures up later.

Now . . . this is interesting. If this is indeed a doughnut, I'll have a lot of territory to my northeast to expand into. Although, what I see of it doesn't look spectacular, although there are a TON of blank spots. I could maintain my NAP with Korea and try to REX my heart out, although without Currency and Code of Laws, that might not be that much. And the apparent lack of strong rivers kind of turns me off, too.

I think I'd be better off trying to get more "living space" to the west, claiming the river for strong commerce cities, building up a good economic base with cottages and such, and then REXing.

I also think that after IW and Pottery, I'll go for Literature. If I hook up the Marble, and with no Industrious rivals, I may have a shot at the Great Library. Much as I would like to snag the Oracle, I think that the G. Library would be more valuable. Though, if neither religion was taken, I might try for Polytheism on the way to Masonry to try for Hinduism and pick up another pre-req while I'm at it.

That's still all far in the future.

For now, I need to figure out how I can raise an army without bankrupting myself.

[Whosit]

Oh, right, I said I'd have pictures. Well, perhaps they don't deserve their own post, but I got some flak for simply editing before . . . .

What is most likely Morius' start area:



I'll move Thannis 1NE next turn to get a better view. Then he'll continue NE, hopefully meeting someone before getting killed. Next is my new view of Seoul:



I'll actually move 1S to the Wheat, then 1NW onto the hill next turn. Might as well get the extra visibility while I can. So, uh, unless there's a land bridge to the island, and that island has Copper, or P'yongyang has Copper in some tile I haven't seen yet . . . it doesn't look like Korea has settled on any strategic resources. In a couple turns I can see if they have Horses, but even if they do, a few Spearmen can handle Chariots and even Horse Archers. I'm sure that I'll learn more once I head west, but do Broker and plako really lack metal, or are they just . . . crazy? I mean, P'yong isn't a bad spot at all. But not to go after strategic resources when you have an Aggressive neighbor seems to be folly.

I'm not sure how much scouting they've done, either. No real way to tell since I haven't been able to keep tabs on where their troops have gone. I believe that they have four Warriors total, but I'll have to double check my numbers. Two of them were produced in the last few turns. They probably kept 1 in Seoul, maybe scouted with the other.

Speaking of, once I start producing Axemen and/or Spearmen, maybe I should eat the costs of my large army and have my Warriors fog bust/explore to the east. If I can limp to Pottery, I can probably build enough Cottages to sustain me long enough to get Currency or something. Original Site will be commerce. If I manage to take out Korea, or even become militarily strong enough that I can just settle where I please (rive locations), I'll cottage those up for commerce. Front-line cottage towns aren't ideal, but I'll take what I can get.

I should probably try checking this somewhere, but does the number of troops automatically supported increase as you found new towns? I've never really paid attention to that very much. But, let's see . . . the numbers are out there, I'll have to look them up again, but future cities will probably cost me about 4 gold each in the near future. 4 cities . . . 12 gold (not counting capital), plus . . . 8? for units . . . 20. Current income . . . 19 . . . 21 min. Original site works furs and cottages . . . +8 . . . *making up numbers and fake math crunching*

Well, with even 4 cities and a large army, I imagine research will be as low as 20 or 30%. But if I settle intelligently, I can still turn that into a strength later as I learn the techs I need to control my costs. And, of course, City 3 will go wherever there is Iron. Unless there is none, in which case I'll have to figure something out.

If I can score a religion (surprisingly, none have been founded yet!) and manage to get a G. Priest for a shrine, that would be helpful. But I won't count on that, and I won't go into Builder mode unless no enemies are in sight.

I feel like I was going to mention something else, but I can't remember now. I guess I'm just antsy for things to pick up. I was really hoping to have learned AH by now so I can see if Korea has Horses. Guess I'll have to be more patient.

[BobRoberts]

I dug up this article on the unit support mechanics over at civfanatics.

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy...enance.php

Can't speak for the accuracy/versioning, but it sounds authorative!


Looks like a great second city there - congratulations!

[Whosit]

Thanks, that's quite helpful.

So, as I expected, the remains of the Zulu:



And some interesting sight into the area around Seoul:



Everyone must have these little islands. There's one near me, one near the Zulu area. Though Korea has better access to their whales than I do. I wonder if there is any strategic value to them, such as late-game resources or happy resources or something. It's certainly something I'll want to explore later.

One of plako's Warriors is poking around my territory. Dunno if it's a response to my scout or something he was going to do anyway. I don't expect him to do anything regrettable, but I'll stay on my toes, anyway. Seoul has about 33 hammers in something. I'll be interested to see what that is.

Oh, and Buddhism has been founded. My money is on regoarrarr since he's the only one who learned a tech this turn. Oh well. I was trying to figure out what techs Korea has learned since Bronze Working. I think one of the techs was a 0 soldier points tech, but then I think they got Hunting or Animal Husbandry based on the Soldier points. Not sure about that, though, since it looks like they may have spent 9 turns on it. Well, I suppose they were making less money than me. That Gold resource really goes a long way this early in the game. I look forward to LiPing's return. She seems to be pretty good at figuring this stuff out. Though, either way, I'm glad that I've been keeping track of scores and stuff. If nothing else, I've been able to figure out when techs are learned and cities founded, etc. I may not be able to wring everything out of these numbers, but it's certainly better than being in the dark.

[Jabah]

Wouldn't it be 'interesting' to pillage the zulu ruins, just to hide their starting location from other players (except from Inca of course)
I don't think you would gain any gold from it, but it might be possible ?

[Whosit]

Wouldn't it be 'interesting' to pillage the zulu ruins, just to hide their starting location from other players (except from Inca of course)
I don't think you would gain any gold from it, but it might be possible ?

Not much point in it, if you ask me. If this is indeed a donut map, then no one else will probably find the location. And the layout of the area would give it away, too, I think. I'd just as soon spend the 2 turns that it would take continuing to explore north.