Aaand, I think Meiz has won this. Best mix of tall and high pop, best civ, and his biggest rival settled in the face of CKN'd China. Bregenz is actually quite hard to defend, Civ5 combat is quite unlike Civ4, salients are a bad thing because they get encircled and shot to death. Worse of all, Jowy has no locations flank Azza's encirclement. So kiss Bregenz goodbye.
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(February 7th, 2014, 16:30)Nicolae Carpathia Wrote: Aaand, I think Meiz has won this. Best mix of tall and high pop, best civ, and his biggest rival settled in the face of CKN'd China. Bregenz is actually quite hard to defend, Civ5 combat is quite unlike Civ4, salients are a bad thing because they get encircled and shot to death. Worse of all, Jowy has no locations flank Azza's encirclement. So kiss Bregenz goodbye. 1. I feel the defender in Civ5 has so many advantages that Jowy at least has a chance. And someone can attack Azza while jowy is at the end of the world. 2. Meiz will win this unless he gets dogpilled or someone uses the science overflow exploit. Someone in the first Civ5 game saying that forcing moves like that is like winning so are you saying that? I can see that point in that even if I disagree with that; the reason being that the leader can cheese right back! For example LP getting rego on his side and being able to sucker punch the alliance. (February 11th, 2014, 10:40)T-hawk Wrote: The science overflow exploit still exists? I thought it was covered back in the fall patch? The latest patch I could find, http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=507531 , makes no mention of it. I could be overlooking the correct patch or they didn't document the fix in the patch, though.
Well, Azza took out a city so if Azza focuses on taking down Jowy--Jowy dies.
Is this one of those ames were you are not allowed to speak? Or is the activity just really bad? Losing a city is a really bad sign in Civ5 because of how many advantages the defender gets. (Just imagine how bad things would be if the defender got double-movement speed like earlier civ games  ) Can t-hawk give a run-down please. 
I haven't played Civ 5 multiplayer, but my impressions from SP is that city defense is harder than you think, precisely because of that movement difficulty you mention. It's usually not hard for the attacker to get 4-5 siege in position at the edge of the city (especially 3-range artillery), but finding positions for 4-5 defenders to shoot back can be incredibly clunky.
And there are no multiplicative defense bonuses like Civ 4. The city fights on its own and can protect one unit, but that's it. Civ 5 army combat is linear rather than multiplicative. A city can easily beat 1-2 attacking units, but pales to insignificance when there are 10 units on each side. The lack of leverage on defense favors the attacker compared to Civ 4.
Yeah the defenders have advantages, but the attackers have surprisingly many tools at their disposal to exploit any weaknesses. More so than Civ4. I can easily predict the vulnerabilities of Civ4 cities from their cultural borders and terrain. Maybe it's a function of inexperience, but I'm poorer at doing so in Civ5.
Another thing that favours the attacker is the paucity of production rushing. Civ4 fighting is always held in check by the possibility of your opponent whipping out as many units as you have attackers, and with force multipliers via city defences, it's easy to run into a brick wall. A unit advantage in Civ5 is going to be maintained by the attacker, and with focus fire/multiple turn combat, will be further exacerbated as the war continues. So an attacker, who by definition has the initiative, will take proportionally smaller losses and can potentially even have a zero hammer lost war. Contrast with Civ4, where you'd only have that kind of crushing victory with a major tech advantage.
March 16th, 2014, 16:28
(This post was last modified: March 16th, 2014, 16:56 by MJW (ya that one).)
Well jowy is getting pwned. Now that he's lost a second city he should have no more units left.
Oh, and if Miez wins this in a ROFL stomp this would be the third time someone snowballed very fast in these Civ5 games--and was not able to be stopped due to lack of diplomacy. I'm not going to play a Civ5 game without diplo because of this. So is it just luck or does Civ5 allow you to snowball a lead faster? I think it's mostly luck but I could be wrong. In the first game Seven got a great start location and everyone around him allowed him to cruise through because they declared war on eachother. In other games the players allowed a broken Civ to be picked (Mongolia and Poland) and did not take steps to stop them after that.
Civ5 definitely allows you to snowball a military lead faster. The defender can't build units fast enough, as Jowy is discovering. Enough attackers can kill defending units faster than they can be built, and with no offsetting losses. Compare to Civ 4 where just a first border city could cost half the attacking stack in casualties.
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