(March 1st, 2014, 22:37)AutomatedTeller Wrote: Where is an actual list of RBMod changes? and where do i get the lastest RBMod? The first page of the RBMod thread doesn't seem to have correct information.
Open the little spoilers on the first page of RBmod, that's the relevant changelog AFAIK.
Were we actually thinking about trading leaders/civs?
(March 1st, 2014, 22:37)AutomatedTeller Wrote: Where is an actual list of RBMod changes? and where do i get the lastest RBMod? The first page of the RBMod thread doesn't seem to have correct information.
Open the little spoilers on the first page of RBmod, that's the relevant changelog AFAIK.
Were we actually thinking about trading leaders/civs?
is that the version we are using (2.035?)
The mod isn't quite final, I think. Krill sends me the changelog and the link when it's ready.
So now that we have 34 players (a lot sooner than I thought we would, especially since PB13 and 14 are still going), we should make sure everyone can actually load the test map Krill posted earlier:
I had to dig it out of the middle of the topic to make sure I could, and I can't be the only person signed up for this who hasn't played a map this large before.
Commodore I don't like how the simple settings are ignored and these wild ideas are adopted with haste. I hate the idea of bargaining and I don't like how the leaders/civs are now public. This was supposed to be same method as in PB13.
I'm easy-going and definately ok continuing with Commodore's list and this bargaining/re-rolling from here. However it would be great, if the settings presented in the sign-up thread would be honoured.
Also before 48h for rerolling starts we need our forum and place where the leaders for roll 1 are properly announced. I could see some of the players not following this discussion too closely might not have spotted Commodore's original message. So Brick or anyone having the needed power please give us Pitboss18 sub-forum and move this thread there. Sign-up thread could still stay here in General forum.
Here are the leaders that Commodore announced i.e. roll 1:
This is the most recent RBmod changelog post that I found. I am under the impression that this is not the latest version and that further updates to the mod and the changelog will come soon.
(February 23rd, 2014, 11:22)Krill Wrote: OK, here is version 2.0.3.9. The change log shall be added to this post shortly, and emailed to Cyneheard to post in the first post of this thread. 2.0.4.0 will be released if and when T-hawk is able to edit circumnavigation.
EDIT: Change log 2.0.3.9. Thanks to SevenSpirits for the formatting.
Financial: +1 commerce on all non-river tiles that have 2+ commerce. +100% production of Bank.
Expansive: +2 health per city. +35% production of Worker, Work Boat. +100% production of Market, Aqueduct, Grocer, Harbor.
Creative: +2 culture per city. +100% production of Theatre, Colloseum, Observatory.
Charismatic: +2 happiness. +1 happiness from Broadcast Tower. -25% XP needed for promotions.
Protective: Free CG1 promo for archery and gunpowder units. +100 production of Granary, Walls.
Imperialistic: +100% Great General emergence. +60% production of Settler. +100% production of Custom House
Aggressive: Free C1 promo for melee and gunpowder units. -25% city maintenance [Not shown in trait description. Bonus not shown in interface. Bonus is multiplicative with other maintenance modifiers. Final displayed city maintenance value is correct and includes this bonus.] +100% production of Barracks, Stable, Drydock.
Philosophical: +150% Great Person production, +100% production of University
Organized, Industrious, Spiritual: No change from BtS
Civs:
America: UU is now Minuteman a Rifleman replacement with free Guerilla 1 and Woodsman 1. Mall is now a Grocer replacement that gives +1 happy from Deer, Sugar, Hit Musicals, Hit Movies, Hit Singles.
Arabia: Starts with Mysticism/Agriculture, instead of Mysticism/The Wheel. Madrassa cost decreased to 70 hammers from 90.
Byzantium: Starts with Mysticism/Fishing, instead of Mysticism/The Wheel. Cataphracts are 11 strength instead of 12, and are first strike immune (like normal knights).
Carthage: Cothon cost decreased to 80 hammers from 100 (now costs same as Harbor). Numidian Cavalry changed to a HA replacement with free C1.
Celts: Dun now gives G2, not G1. Dun civilopedia updated to list unit classes that recieve G2 promotion.
France: Salon +1 free specialist, -1 free artist.
Germany: UU is now the Kanone, a Cannon that costs 80 hammers instead of 100. Assembly Plant now available at Steam Power.
Inca: Terraces now give +1 culture instead of +2. Quechua loses combat 1.
India: Starts with Mysticism/Wheel instead of Mysticism/Mining. The Fast Worker now has Mobility (-1 Terrain Movement Costs), but does not get an extra movement point compared to normal workers.
Japan: UB is now Pagoda, an Observatory replacement with +10% hammers.
Portugal: Feitoria now costs 120h, from 180h.
Rome: Praetorian changed to a Swordsman replacement with +1 strength. Forum increased to +35% GPP generation from +25%.
Russia: UB is now Research Institute, a university replacement with +1 scientist specialist.
Vikings: Trading Post gives naval units Flanking 1
Leaders:
Kublai Khan: Leader traits are now Charismatic, Creative, changed from Aggressive, Creative.
Civics:
Police State: Now Medium upkeep.
Vassalage: Now provides free support for military units as well (meaning Pacifism is cheaper), and is Medium Upkeep.
Slavery: 30h for the 1st pop, 20h for the 2nd pop and subsequent pops. So, 30/50/70/90. On Quick speed, that's 20/33/46/60.
Serfdom: +75% Worker Speed, +1h for Watermills and Windmills.
Free Market: No longer provides -25% Corporate Costs. Now provides +25% Trade Route Yield.
Environmentalism: No longer provides +25% Corporate Costs, or +2 commerce to windmills. Provides +1 gold per specialist, +1c to farms and pastures, +2c to forest preserves, and Low upkeep. Swapped with Free Speech. Now available at Liberalism.
Free Speech: Now Low upkeep, swapped with Environmentalism. Now available at Scientific Method.
State property: Now Medium upkeep
Wonders, Projects:
Wonder Resource Doublers: All wonders that had +100% production with a specific resource now only have +50% production with that resource.
Rushmore: Now -50% WW, (from -25%).
Red Cross: 200h.
West Point: 550h, +5XP. Now requires a lvl 5 unit (17XP/13XP for Charismatic).
Great Lighthouse: Now +1 trade route instead of +2 trade routes, enabled at Masonry, but needs lighthouse and Sailing (no functional change in the tech requirements but makes F6 look less cluttered).
SoZ: no WW effect. Now +3XP, 200 hammers, no building prerequisites. No longer gets +100% production from Ivory.
The Internet: Now a wonder. 2k cost, +15% beakers in every city, +2 scientist gpp, double production speed with copper. No longer a project.
Cristo Redentur: +100% SPI production, -50% Anarchy instead of -100%.
SDI: Removed from the game
Base unit changes:
Scouts: Require no tech. Every player starts with a scout instead of a warrior.
Swordsman (and all replacements): +50% city attack
Archer (and all replacements): +30% defence against Swordsmen.
War Elephants: Now 7 str, +50% vs. Mounted units.
Trebuchet: Now requires Machinery, instead of Engineering.
SAM Infantry: 75% interception chance (up form 40%)
Destroyer: Now enabled at Artillery (not Combustion) (requires Oil OR Uranium)
Transport: Now enabled at Artillery (not Combustion) (requires Oil OR Uranium)
Mobile Artillery: Can now load guided Missiles and Tac Nukes (as Submarines and Missile Cruisers do). No longer require oil.
Gunships decreased to 3 moves.
ICBM: No longer unlimited range, but long enough so that they will out distance your army and navy easily, and they can be rebased. Loses the nuke tag. Does not need Manhattern project to be built.
iCost: 450h
iAirCombatLimit: 75
iAirCombat: 160
iCollateralDamageLimit: 75%
iCollateralDamageMaxUnits: 12
iAirRange: 36
Tactical Nukes: Now S80 1shot units that can bombard units, cause collateral damage to 5 units, cannot be intercepted. Loses the nuke tag. Does not need Manhattern project to be built. Full list of changes:
iCost: 200h
iAirCombatLimit: 75
iAirCombat: 80
iCollateralDamageLimit: 75%
iCollateralDamageMaxUnits: 5
iAirRange: 4
Guided Missiles: Can bombard units, tiles and cultural defence, cause collateral damage to 2 units, cannot be intercepted. Full list of changes (underline means original stat, for comparison):
iCost: 60h
iBombRate: 16
iAirCombatLimit: 75
iAirCombat: 40
iCollateralDamage: 100
iCollateralDamageLimit: 50%
iCollateralDamageMaxUnits: 1
iAirRange: 4
Flanking: Flanking strength (used to calculate damage from flanking strikes) or all units reduced by 50%.
Buildings:
Barracks: increased cost to 60 hammers, +1 culture.
Jails: now -50% War Weariness.
Castles (and replacement UB): no longer decrease bombardment rate of catapults or trebuchets.
Technology:
Known Tech Bonus changed to 25 (up from 30), enabled by Map Trading (so there is no Known Tech Bonus until you research Writing).The known tech bonus is multiplied by the number of techs that you have that enable map trading.
Hunting: Enables pastures, cost increased by 50% from 40 to 60. No longer enables camps.
Animal Husbandry: Enables camps. No longer enables pastures.
Archery: Base tech cost decreased by two thirds, from 60 to 40.
Astronomy: Requires Code of Laws as mandatory prerequisite in addition to Calendar and Optics. No longer requires Paper.
Metal Casting: Cost reduced to 300.
Alphabet: No longer enables tech trading, allows Open Borders. Cost reduced to 250.
Writing: Enables Map trading, no longer enables OB.
Paper enables Map trading, Tech Trading. Requires Metal Casting as mandatory prerequisite.
Corporation enables Map Trading.
Scientific Method enables Map Trading.
Steam Power enables Map Trading.
Electricity enables Map Trading.
Renaissance era technology prices increased by a percentage of base BtS tech cost as follows:
Education: +25%
PP: +25%
Nationalism: +25%
Gunpowder: +25%
Astronomy: +25%
Economics: +50%
Liberalism: +50%
Replaceable Parts: +50%
Military Tradition: +50%
Constitution: +50%
Chemistry: +50%
Democracy: +75%
Rifling: +75%
Corporation: +75%
Military Science: +75%
Steel: +75%
Steam Power: +75%
Artillery: +100%
Assembly Line: +100%
Scientific Method: +100%
Railroad: +100%
Cost of all subsequent techs increased by 100%
All medieval and earlier techs are untradeable:
The untradeable techs are as follows: Fishing, The Wheel, Agriculture, Hunting, Mysticism, Mining, Sailing, Pottery, Animal Husbandry, Archery, Meditation, Polytheism, Masonry, Horseback Riding, Priesthood, Monotheism, Bronze Working, Writing, Metal Casting, Iron Working, Aesthetics, Mathematics, Alphabet, Monarchy, Compass, Literature, Calendar, Construction, Currency, Machinery, Drama, Engineering, Code of Laws, Feudalism, Optics, Music, Philosophy, Civil Service, Theology, Divine Right, Paper, Guilds, Banking
Espionage:
Switch Civic, Switch Religion, City Revolt,Counter Espionage, and Destroy Production spy missions removed.
Costs of all active spy missions doubled.
Discounts to spy missions due to religious effects removed (owning holy city, religion present in city).
Spies now spawn with "Secretive", and cannot see tiles except the one they're standing on.
The No Espionage game option now works properly:
GSpy points are converted into Great Merchant points.
Espionage no longer gets converted into culture.
Cultural expansion now happens at normal values.
Spies cannot be built.
Graphs are always visible on contact.
Tile Changes:
Watermills: +1 base hammers, no longer receives +1h at Rep Parts.
Workshops: +1 base hammers, no longer receives +1h at Chemistry.
Mines: +1h at Rep Parts.
Quarry: +1h at Rep Parts.
Whaling Boats: Enabled at Sailing, not Optics. Otherwise unchanged.
Game Mechanics:
The Draft: Rifles now cost 2 pop to draft. A city must now end a draft at size 6 instead of size 5 (So size 8 to draft a rifle, size 7 to draft a musket).
Corporations: Completely removed from the game.
Culture required to achieve legendary border pop on Quick Speed changed from 25000 to 33000
Events:
The following events have been removed from the game:
Negative Events:
1. Forest Fire
5. Washed out
10 Careless apprentice
11. Famine
12. Slave revolt
15. Farm Bandits
18. Fugitive
19. Pestilence
21. Faux Pas
22. Joyous Wedding
23. Wedding Feud
24. Left at the Altar
26. Tornado
29. Looters
30. Brothers in need
31. Hurricane
32. Cyclone
33. Tsunami
34. Monsoon
35. Blizzard
36. Volcano
37. Dust Bowl
42. Clunker Coal
43. Sour crude
50. Mining accident
52. SetbackS
54. Great depression
55. Bermuda triangle
70. Influenza
71. Solo Flight
77. Ancient olympics
78. Modern olympics
80. Earth day
92. Cigarette Smoker
93. Heroic Gesture
94. Great Mediator
99. The Huns
100. The Vandals
101. the Goths
102. The Philistines
103. The Vedic Aryans
104. Holy ritual
132. Spoiled grain
135. Industrial fire
155. Slave revolt warning
160. Defecting agent
161. Jail
162. Spy discovered
163. Nuclear protests
165. Broken Dam
169. Toxcatl
170. Dissident Priest
172. Rogue station
174. Impeachment
Remove (Too good):
9. Hymns and sculptures
20. Marathon
28. Bards tale
64. Federal reserve
139. Partisans
167. Golden Buddha
Coastal Blockade now has a range of 1 square around the blockader, instead of 3 squares.
AP Resolutions: Declare War (on a non-member), Force Peace (between two members), and
Assign City are no longer eligible resolution actions.
Fail-gold: You never get fail-gold if you also completed the wonder somewhere else (so no National Wonder fail-gold, or doubling up on a wonder to guarantee yourself a paycheck. The game still informs you that you received "0 gold" from your hammers).
Hut techs: Can only gain techs from the first three rows of the tech screen:
Toroidal maps: Now return city maintenance as if the map were Cylindrical.
Maximum number of players is now 34, up from 18.[spoiler]
Included additional bug fixes:
Trade route turn order bug.
Foreign trade route cities lost permanently when your city using those routes is destroyed (fix is taken from BTS unofficial patch).
Build culture double production.
Build wealth/research/culture + production automation double production.
Proposed trades including cities, where the cities no longer exist to be trades, are not cancelled (note: I consider this a bug because proposed trades are already cancelled if a player lacks the requisite e.g. resources/gold. could be considered not a bug).
Production decay counter on a type of build (e.g. axeman) is not reset after completing one if the next item in the queue is of the same type (fix is taken from BTS unofficial patch).
Feature growth/disappearance rates, and bonus discovery (mine pop) rates, do not scale with game speed.
Ok, cool, nice to see this going. Everyone wants to get this started, but this is going to be a monster game that will take a lot of time from all the participants so let's not screw things up by rushing too much.
Most importantly: I would love to see the final list of settings and house rules published and set before we go forward with rerolls. I also think that it would be nice that all the information that will be given about the map will be stated, unless of course the idea is that picks will be done in complete darkness.
There are couple of things that we might want to briefly discuss in order to make game enjoyable for everybody (based on discussions I've seen lately). Or plako/Commodore could just state how are things done in this game.
1. Who is/are the game admin(s)? Probably map maker Commodore and lurker civ Sullla would be most natural choices?
2. What is the policy about the pauses? Some people prefer more strict attitude, some more casual. Personally I think that people should always inform when they can't play the turn in time, but sometimes unexpected RL events happen and I think we want to pause the game even if we don't hear about the specific player. I don't want anyone to lose interest in the game, because he missed the window by an hour. Continuous missing of the turns should of course not be tolerated, but especially when turn splits come into the game there should be some tolerance for delays.
3. When you are in the turn split, is it ok to log into game when it's not your own turn? (moving anything or changing builds is banned of course) Again, personally I have no problem with this, but I can understand that if people don't like it. Anyways, if we want to strictly ban this behaviour it should be added to settings
4. Everyone is expected to play his turn with at least a minor effort even when the interest is gone. If not possible, one needs to ask for a sub.
5. What is allowed in AI Diplo? sending messages via city names is banned, anything else?
In general I would avoid the urge to define numerous detailed rules. Some flexibility, common sense and not being a jerk has worked decently well in the games I've lately been playing i.e. PB8+PB13. This is also reflected in the settings that has been presented in the sign-up thread.
IMO:
1. Commodore and Sullla would make excellent admins, if either/both of them would be willing.
2. No policy is best policy. Constant pauses are annoying, but forcing something else just will cause unnescessary troubles. We'll figure out the best solution case by case.
3. I can do well with a either version of the rule. However this is not in the original rule set so I would say it is allowed and there is no need to change it.
4. Yes - No one should start this game thinking it is ok to turn to AI, if it feels dull to play. Find replacement or play the game to the bitter end.
5. To me it just means you can make trade through diplo window. There shouldn't be any coded messages anywhere naturally including unit/city naming.
