Soil Enrichment (Fertile and Gaia)

[Zeraan]

Got another question. The technology descriptions states that:

Soil Enrichment - Changes planet to a fertile planet, increases population growth by 50%, and increases max population by 25%, for a one-time cost of 150 BC

Advanced Soil Enrichment - Changes planet to a gaia planet, increases population growth by 100%, and increases max population by 50%, for a one-time cost of 300 BC.

My questions are the following:

What is "fertile planet"? in OSG, the first planet type that fits the category for randomly determining if a planet have fertile bonus is "Desert" planet. So if a planet is "Minimal", does it change to "Desert" (if not, what type does it change to?

I remember that "Gaia" is basically Terran type, but with 200% regular pop growth. Let me know if this is incorrect

How does the "25/50% max population" work? In OSG, it gives the increases in increments of 5. So planets with 105 to 120 base maximum population all get the same 30+ for fertile, as an example. Non-hostile planets with max population of 10 gets 5 for fertile (so it's actually 50% instead of 25%), but gets 0 from Gaia. What's the formula for determining the amount of increase in max population?

And in cases where you have both technologies researched, does Advanced Soil replace regular Soil? In that when you invest in soil enrichment, do you pay 300 BC to get both? Or do you build first before the second, for a total cost of 450 BC? It looks like if you don't have regular soil enrichment, but you build advanced soil enrichment, you get the benefits of the regular soil enrichment as well. So I'm assuming that latter replaces the former. What about the cases when you already have soil enrichment on some planets, and you discover advanced soil enrichment? Do you pay only 150 BC on those planets to get Gaia, or pay another 300 BC for a combined cost of 450, while new planets only pay 300 BC?

Thanks for bearing with me as I try and figure out the intricate details.

[RefSteel]

[EDIT: I thought I knew the answers to these, but subsequently tested them and found I was incorrect in several places; see other posts below for more accurate answers than this post's.]

What is "fertile planet"? in OSG, the first planet type that fits the category for randomly determining if a planet have fertile bonus is "Desert" planet. So if a planet is "Minimal", does it change to "Desert" (if not, what type does it change to?

Unlike MoO2 Gaias, "fertile planets" and "gaias" in MoO are not planet types like deserts, terrans, tundras, etc. Rather, each planet has a fertility rating of either Hostile, (normal), Fertile, or Gaia in addition to its mineral classification of Ultra-Poor, Poor, (normal), Rich, Ultra-Rich, Artifacts, or Orion. Naturally-occurring Hostile environments are always on (all) planets whose type is Barren or worse. If such a planet begins to be treated with Atmospheric Terraforming, it immediately becomes a Minimal environment, accessible to species without the previously-needed Controlled Environment technology, but it remains Hostile, halving population growth rates (and I think the max population remains unchanged) until the Atmospheric Terraforming project is complete. Barring editors, this is the only way a Minimal planet can ever be Hostile in the game (and no planet above Minimal ever can be).

Naturally-occurring Fertile environments only exist on (some) planets whose type is Desert or better. Even without Soil Enrichment (see below) however, a previously normal planet can become Fertile if the "planetary axis shift" event occurs for that planet. If this happens to a Minimal planet (or such a planet receives Soil Enrichment) it simply becomes a Fertile Minimal world. I don't know what happens if the axis-shift event occurs on a Hostile planet, or even if it is possible for this to happen, but I would guess that the world would become a Fertile Minimal world then as well.

Gaia environments are never naturally-occurring, and only exist (barring editors) on planets that at one time were fertile but were modified with Advanced Soil Enrichment. Advanced Soil Enrichment doesn't change a planet's type; Minimal Gaias are entirely possible.

How does the "25/50% max population" work? In OSG, it gives the increases in increments of 5. So planets with 105 to 120 base maximum population all get the same 30+ for fertile, as an example. Non-hostile planets with max population of 10 gets 5 for fertile (so it's actually 50% instead of 25%), but gets 0 from Gaia. What's the formula for determining the amount of increase in max population?

I don't know the actual formula, but I should note that the "25/50%" bonus is applied based on the planet's base size, excluding terraforming. Now that I think of it, I don't even know if the extra population from Atmospheric Terraforming is included in the base size for this purpose (though I imagine it probably is).

And in cases where you have both technologies researched, does Advanced Soil replace regular Soil?

Here's how it works: When you have either Soil Enrichment or Advanced Soil Enrichment technology (having both is redundant once you have the Advanced version) any world with a normal environment (not Hostile, and of course not Fertile or Gaia already) can be changed to a Fertile one at the cost of 150 BC. Once you have Advanced Soil tech, any world with a Fertile environment (not Hostile and of course not already Gaia, but also not normal - you have to pay for the regular Soil Enrichment first) can be changed to a Gaia at the cost of 300 BC. Thus, Advanced Soil Enrichment tech obviates the need for regular Soil Enrichment tech, but neither replaces nor removes the need for the actual performance of regular Soil Enrichment on a planet.

[Zeraan]

Unlike MoO2 Gaias, "fertile planets" and "gaias" in MoO are not planet types like deserts, terrans, tundras, etc. Rather, each planet has a fertility rating of either Hostile, (normal), Fertile, or Gaia in addition to its mineral classification of Ultra-Poor, Poor, (normal), Rich, Ultra-Rich, Artifacts, or Orion. Naturally-occurring Hostile environments are always on (all) planets whose type is Barren or worse. If such a planet begins to be treated with Atmospheric Terraforming, it immediately becomes a Minimal environment, accessible to species without the previously-needed Controlled Environment technology, but it remains Hostile, halving population growth rates (and I think the max population remains unchanged) until the Atmospheric Terraforming project is complete. Barring editors, this is the only way a Minimal planet can ever be Hostile in the game (and no planet above Minimal ever can be).

Naturally-occurring Fertile environments only exist on (some) planets whose type is Desert or better. Even without Soil Enrichment (see below) however, a previously normal planet can become Fertile if the "planetary axis shift" event occurs for that planet. If this happens to a Minimal planet (or such a planet receives Soil Enrichment) it simply becomes a Fertile Minimal world. I don't know what happens if the axis-shift event occurs on a Hostile planet, or even if it is possible for this to happen, but I would guess that the world would become a Fertile Minimal world then as well.

So if a planet has been improved to "Minimal" via atmospheric terraforming, or if the planet is minimal or better, adding "fertile" via soil enrichment does not change the type, but instead just adds the fertile bonus and the max population bonus? Nevermind, your next comment answers this.

A planet that was hostile, on start of atmospheric terraforming, immediately becomes minimal, despite it not being done yet? Then on completion, the hostile penalty is removed? When is the extra population bonus applied? On completion? Or at start of the process?

Gaia environments are never naturally-occurring, and only exist (barring editors) on planets that at one time were fertile but were modified with Advanced Soil Enrichment. Advanced Soil Enrichment doesn't change a planet's type; Minimal Gaias are entirely possible.

Alright, so soil/adv soil enrichment does not change the types, only adding the fertile bonus and the max population bonus.

I don't know the actual formula, but I should note that the "25/50%" bonus is applied based on the planet's base size, excluding terraforming. Now that I think of it, I don't even know if the extra population from Atmospheric Terraforming is included in the base size for this purpose (though I imagine it probably is).

Yes, the extra population from atmospheric terraforming is included as the base size. The three terraforming (atmospheric, soil, and adv. soil) technologies affects the base size, while the "Terraform +xx" merely adds the bonus, but is not calculated in waste's limit or other events.

Here's how it works: When you have either Soil Enrichment or Advanced Soil Enrichment technology (having both is redundant once you have the Advanced version) any world with a normal environment (not Hostile, and of course not Fertile or Gaia already) can be changed to a Fertile one at the cost of 150 BC. Once you have Advanced Soil tech, any world with a Fertile environment (not Hostile and of course not already Gaia, but also not normal - you have to pay for the regular Soil Enrichment first) can be changed to a Gaia at the cost of 300 BC. Thus, Advanced Soil Enrichment tech obviates the need for regular Soil Enrichment tech, but neither replaces nor removes the need for the actual performance of regular Soil Enrichment on a planet.

Let me sum it up to make sure I understand it: So regardless if you have Soil Enrichment technology or not, Advanced Soil Enrichment requires the Soil Enrichment to be applied first. And having Advanced Soil Enrichment also gives you Soil Enrichment, though it don't show up in your tech list, due to Soil Enrichment being the first project when you start investing in Adv Soil Enrichment. Thus the total cost is 450 BC for each planet for Adv. Soil Enrichment (150 from Soil, 300 from Adv Soil). Is that about it?

Thanks!

[Ianus]

Let me sum it up to make sure I understand it: So regardless if you have Soil Enrichment technology or not, Advanced Soil Enrichment requires the Soil Enrichment to be applied first. And having Advanced Soil Enrichment also gives you Soil Enrichment, though it don't show up in your tech list, due to Soil Enrichment being the first project when you start investing in Adv Soil Enrichment. Thus the total cost is 450 BC for each planet for Adv. Soil Enrichment (150 from Soil, 300 from Adv Soil). Is that about it?

That is it. This is actually annoying as when applying Advanced Soil to virgin (non-Fertile) planets the game will inform that the planet had become Fertile and will readjust Eco spending to the minimum even though the planet can still be upgraded to Gaia.

Arg! And the instantaneous "minimal shift" with Atmospheric Terriforming! I've lost more planets than I can count upon learning AT when the NEXT TURN an AI proof Hostile world becomes suddenly habitable drawing enemy fleets like moths to a flame. That will teach you to keep defensive fleets on hand!
I would be interested to hear others chime in about when the pop increase is applied to the "lump sum" terraforming techs. I assume that it occurs once the full cost has been paid the same way the Hostile only comes off the AT'd worlds once the process is completed but I haven't ever paid close attention.

Anther question that just occurred to me: what techs are required and what is the minimum planetary size required to fully upgrade a planet to 300 population? Orion (base size 120) can often reach 300 but in my latest games the size 100 worlds all got maxed at 270. What is the math on terraforming pop increases?

[RefSteel]

A planet that was hostile, on start of atmospheric terraforming, immediately becomes minimal, despite it not being done yet? Then on completion, the hostile penalty is removed? When is the extra population bonus applied? On completion? Or at start of the process?

Yes, that's the way it actually works, although it may be a bug. I thought the max pop bonus was applied on completion, but I just tested it and discovered I was wrong: It is applied at the same time the planet becomes Minimal (as soon as even 1BC is spent on AtmoTerra).

Let me sum it up to make sure I understand it: So regardless if you have Soil Enrichment technology or not, Advanced Soil Enrichment requires the Soil Enrichment to be applied first. And having Advanced Soil Enrichment also gives you Soil Enrichment, though it don't show up in your tech list, due to Soil Enrichment being the first project when you start investing in Adv Soil Enrichment. Thus the total cost is 450 BC for each planet for Adv. Soil Enrichment (150 from Soil, 300 from Adv Soil). Is that about it?

That's the way I thought it worked ... but then I tested it to make sure, and found out I was mistaken! Here's the way it actually works:

Advanced Soil Enrichment does not give you the effect of normal Soil Enrichment automatically, and does not require a Fertile planet to operate. Instead, on planets with a normal enviornment, if you have regular Soil Enrichment, it is applied first, and costs 150 BC. If you do not have Soil Enrichment, a normal environment will skip the fertile phase altogether: Advanced Soil Enrichment will turn it into a Gaia for the cost of 300 BC.

On Fertile planets, Gaia costs only 150 BC. I believe this is true regardless of what caused their Fertility (naturally-occurring, Soil Enrichment, or an event) but I have only actually tested it for post-soil-enrichment so far. I can confirm that it doesn't matter whether the original soil enrichment was performed before or after Advanced Soil was researched.

Sorry for the misinformation earlier; such are the pitfalls of working from memory.

[RefSteel]

That is it. This is actually annoying as when applying Advanced Soil to virgin (non-Fertile) planets the game will inform that the planet had become Fertile and will readjust Eco spending to the minimum even though the planet can still be upgraded to Gaia.

Yeah; experimentation shows that contrary to what I first thought, it only actually happens when you have both Soil Enrichment techs, but that doesn't make this particular aspect of the interface any less annoying.

I would be interested to hear others chime in about when the pop increase is applied to the "lump sum" terraforming techs. I assume that it occurs once the full cost has been paid the same way the Hostile only comes off the AT'd worlds once the process is completed but I haven't ever paid close attention.

I assumed this was the case too, but it turns out that AT provides the boost to max pop right away (at the same time the planet becomes Minimal)! Only the hostile tag waits for AT to complete. The Soil Enrichment techs do not provide their boosts (to max pop or anything else) until the work on each of them is complete however.

Anther question that just occurred to me: what techs are required and what is the minimum planetary size required to fully upgrade a planet to 300 population? Orion (base size 120) can often reach 300 but in my latest games the size 100 worlds all got maxed at 270. What is the math on terraforming pop increases?

You need a planet with base size 120 (obviously rare outside of Orion) plus Advanced Soil Enrichment and Complete Terraforming: 120 (base) + 60 (base/2 for Gaia) + 120 (max terraforming) = 300. As you noted, a (")mere(") homeworld can only reach 100 (base) + 50 (base/2 for Gaia) + 120 (max terra) = 270.

[Zeraan]

Thanks for your help! I think this answers all of my questions about terraforming.

[RefSteel]

On Fertile planets, Gaia costs only 150 BC. I believe this is true regardless of what caused their Fertility (naturally-occurring, Soil Enrichment, or an event) but I have only actually tested it for post-soil-enrichment so far. I can confirm that it doesn't matter whether the original soil enrichment was performed before or after Advanced Soil was researched.

Continuing the theme of "I should never make assumptions," further testing shows that Gaia is NOT discounted on planets that were naturally Fertile - only those for which you already invested resources in Soil Enrichment.

[MaxPower]

Anyone know how much is the increase of the planet size when atmospheric terraforming is completed? I noted that Barren worlds don't increase at all, but Radiated/Toxic worlds enjoy a significant increase.
It seems that an increased "hostility level" leads to a bigger size handicap of the planet.

When I apply (either normal or advanced) Soil Enrichment to a former hostile planet, which base size (the original "hostile" or the new "normal") is taken into account for the 25/50% increases?

[Zeraan]

Anyone know how much is the increase of the planet size when atmospheric terraforming is completed? I noted that Barren worlds don't increase at all, but Radiated/Toxic worlds enjoy a significant increase.
It seems that an increased "hostility level" leads to a bigger size handicap of the planet.

When I apply (either normal or advanced) Soil Enrichment to a former hostile planet, which base size (the original "hostile" or the new "normal") is taken into account for the 25/50% increases?

The MoO 1's OSG says this:

Radiated, Toxic, and Inferno gains 20 from atmospheric terraforming
Dead and Tundra gains 10.

Soil Enrichment can be done only on Minimal or better, so by the time you do Soil Enrichment, the Atmospheric Terraforming's population bonus is already applied, and is factored in for soil enrichment's pop bonus.

Terraforming +XX% is NOT factored in for any of those.