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Well, it changed the calculus for us. I suspect Mikehendi's sudden interest in ending the game is at least contributed to by this:
He landed Liberalism after we ended turn (we fired a Golden Age this turn, fuller report tomorrow). That lead to this exchange from Noble and I:
Quote:Gaspar: lib for mike
and gsci faraway
Noble: time for him to lib nat and draft axes
Two things: Window of opportunity to use those HAs for anything other than defense is nearly shut and running a massive farmer's gambit in this game - well, someone has to call him on it.
This might cost us but it just seemed foolish to wait for him draft rifles and AIstomp us, which is much closer than first appeared.
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(March 10th, 2014, 01:59)Gaspar Wrote: Two things: Window of opportunity to use those HAs for anything other than defense is nearly shut and running a massive farmer's gambit in this game - well, someone has to call him on it.
Honest question: How does that help your position in the game exactly? Or does prevent you getting stomped by Rifles later (either from him or Gavagai)?
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(March 10th, 2014, 05:26)Serdoa Wrote: (March 10th, 2014, 01:59)Gaspar Wrote: Two things: Window of opportunity to use those HAs for anything other than defense is nearly shut and running a massive farmer's gambit in this game - well, someone has to call him on it.
Honest question: How does that help your position in the game exactly? Or does prevent you getting stomped by Rifles later (either from him or Gavagai)?
Fair question. The primary answer is it provides buffer. We'll take at least 2 of the 3 border cities unless Mike proves to be a world-class general who can pull units from thin air. We'll raze them of course and try and settle a more favorable border. Regardless, it will slow down the inevitable.
I mean there's no way those Rifles weren't coming for us anyway, might as well get the sucker punch in first.
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And well, now you've got me started. I get this sense everytime we take an aggressive action this game there's a great crying wail from our opponents and/or the lurkers that we're somehow not playing in the proper spirit of the game. Well, fuck them and fuck anyone who thinks that. We've had our backs against the wall from very early. Even if you want to argue that we're in that position 100% because of our own poor play and not because of the map or other uncontrollable factors, what are we supposed to do?
I get the impression folks would all like us to lay down and take our ass-whipping like Nakor does, show Gavagai, Mikehendi or whomever else wants to show up our belly and be done with it. Well, that's not going to happen. BUT OH THE INTEGRITY OF THE GAME, GASPAR. YOU MUST NOT TRY AND IMPACT THE OUTCOME EXCEPT TO SUCCEED YOURSELF. I mean really, come off it, I hear the implication in your question, Serdoa. And you were at least man enough to make it here, I'm sure there are others. You know how we've impacted the integrity of this game? We haven't had the slightest chance since that worker snipe. We probably didn't have any chance from t0, given the mapmaker decided to give EVERYONE better capitals than us. But we still spend an hour+ on every turn while half the guys are in and out in 2-3 minutes. We've managed to land 3 wonders, 2 of them key. We've negotiated a relationship with the leader which is significantly beneficial to our position while the other players just blindly accept every diplo offer he throws their way. We fought back and got Gavagai's foot off our throat finally. And now we're trying to take an advantage our neighbor gave us by playing farmers gambit for 125t. There's some perception Mike's played some great fucking game. He hasn't. On the map where most of the players are involved in Celebrity Deathmatch, Realms Beyond edition, he's managed to neighbor the most incompetent player that I perhaps have ever seen and us, who had Gavagai's foot on our throat until t110 or so. That particular set of circumstances is even better than Seven's, since at least he had to show the initiative to take out Retep. Mikehendi's just gotten incredibly lucky. I'm not saying he hasn't taken advantage of that luck - he has. But let's not call it anything other than luck.
And lastly - he's been a dick. He logs in 15 times a turn, moves his units in segments, ends turn never. Last turn took so fucking long because he refused to end turn and we refused to play until he did. We refused to play because we had been playing after him and it makes sense to keep doing so. Oh, and this:
So this guy flouts the rules when he feels like and is just really an inch off of Parkinscum. So I really don't want to hear a trail of tears wept because we're going to try and kick in a few of his sandcastles... IN A WAY THAT BENEFITS US.
I guess that's the end of the day. What's worse for the integrity of the game - a team that tries hard even when their situation is completely screwed but might upset a few of the leaders - or completely mailing in your turns so you're an easy mark for whomever wants your land? I understand the lurkers might prefer the latter, but as a player, I prefer the former.
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FWIW, if it isn't obvious, Noble and I are 100% behind the game being called, if that's what's decided.
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I do love a good Gaspar rant. More thoughts tomorrow when I'm not on the road. But yeah, this game ending wouldn't be the worst thing ever.
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I'm sorry that my map caused you so much headache Gaspar. You know that I disagree how much impact it had in game terms, but I can't (and don't want to) argue that it did have impact on yours and probably Nobles take on the game as a whole. Which obviously if you want or not will react back and influence the game-impact it has.
Anyhow, I'm certainly having strong feelings about the move, you are right on that. I can't elaborate without someone probably crying foul, so maybe we can talk after the game about it.
(And for the record: Yes the map had issues. Because I'm a rookie-mapmaker. And because I assumed some things that did not come true at all. Map being based on players being reasonable is just dumb. I learned my lesson there.)
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I'd rather see you doing exactly what you're planning on doing. Why should anybody get a free pass? And like you said, they're likely coming for you with rifles if you just sit by and let them tech away, so why give them time? I just wish more people were this courageous, to start a war at a tech disadvantage. I think the impact of tech in war as it stands in the current RB meta, is a little overrated.
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i agree with Pin. great post on that topic in your pb18 thread btw.
i'm biased, bit even if it was the other way around i'd be in favor of attacking out while you still can.
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Quote:I get the impression folks would all like us to lay down and take our ass-whipping like Nakor does, show Gavagai, Mikehendi or whomever else wants to show up our belly and be done with it.
FWIW that's definitely not my feeling. I wouldn't think it's my duty to let the game turn into a pure duel when there are two clear leaders, and proving that border cities can't be taken for free is part of the game.
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