RB PBEM #1 - Mehmed (SPOILERS!)

[Dreylin]

upgrades are 30 + 3 * hammer difference

Normal speed or Quick?

[sunrise089]

Normal speed or Quick?

Hammers scale to game speed, so maybe the formula doesn't change.

I agree with Galleons to Transports if the Transports have the range you need and if the goal is a fast overwhelming strike. However once he builds destroyers inside his cities those transports won't be too useful, right?

[regoarrarr]

Normal speed or Quick?

Sunrise is right that it doesn't matter. And you should be able to confirm with the WB tests that you already did and posted, right?

It's possible that the 30 scales to 20 on Quick.

[Dreylin]

Sunrise is right that it doesn't matter. And you should be able to confirm with the WB tests that you already did and posted, right?

It's possible that the 30 scales to 20 on Quick.

Yeah, but I was trying to avoid having to do that myself!

OK, so the WB tests showed that (a) when I reported the costs in the previous post I switched the Ironclad & Frigate costs & (b) the 30h does indeed scale to 20h on Quick. It also showed that my WB test didn't quite have the same hammer values for the units as the actual game.

So:

Caravel(40h) - Destroyer(134h) = 302g
Privateer(53h) - Destroyer = 263g
Frigate(60h) - Destroyer = 242g
Ironclad(67h) - Destroyer = 221g

Galleon(52h) - Transport(83h) = 113g

I agree with Galleons to Transports if the Transports have the range you need and if the goal is a fast overwhelming strike. However once he builds destroyers inside his cities those transports won't be too useful, right?

Well yes and no. mh currently has only one city with a Drydocks in - his Moai city Mainz. If I can blockade that city, he can't work the water tiles and loses their production, but also he can't keep the city fed so it'll start starving off. (oh, and he's in Caste System so can't whip them off profitably).

Konya and Sarmatian can both produce 2t Destroyers, so once I pump a few of those out I should have the water secure from mh at least.

As for long-term use for the Transports; I expect to lose a few of them in the initial attack (I should get in the region of 60-70% odds vs. an Ironclad), but the remainder will serve for the assaults on mh & sooooo's coasts.

Oh, the other thing I noticed when looking over the game this morning was that mh hasn't been very thorough about upgrading his transport network. His Railway is pretty spotty and there doesn't seem to be a full connection to Mainz from his frontlines. If that continues to be the case, I may be able to get away with landing an expeditionary force behind the city without him being able to bring up an army to mount a counter-attack.

[Dreylin]

Sooooo sent a quick confirmation message:

Hi Dreylin,

I got the expected merchant. OK you can ask ruff.

sooooo

and I managed to nab Ruff for a quick chat:

me: Hey Ruff, you got the RB PBEM?

Ruff.Hi: yeah
no time to play it but I peaked at it

me: Ah, OK

Ruff.Hi: Soooo got a merchant

me: Yeah

Ruff.Hi: mh has combustion AND oil!
and landed the Pentagon

me: he wants to swap it for my Prophet
Well he must have Forted it
I think I may want to take sooooo's offer
How would that sit with you?

Ruff.Hi: what was the oiffer?

me: Merchant for Prophet

Ruff.Hi: how are you planning on doing the swap?

me: he wants his Shrine
Probably have to be a 10t no-scouting OB deal
(or until I declare)

Ruff.Hi: how will that sit with a Raze attack against his coastal cities?

me: Well I'm going to be tied up with mh first-off
probably won't take more than a couple of turns to run the exchange

Ruff.Hi: I was thinking (hoping) that you could divert 1 transport and knock off both of his cities

me: meanwhile I pound mh
Well I can't hit mh for 3t

Ruff.Hi: I'd be ok if he wanted to run the GP thru my land and you run your GP the other way

me: You'd need OB with him?
I gift / he gifts - you middleman?

Ruff.Hi: going out - let me thing on it

me: Sure
I figure you'll probably get the Shrine before he makes back the money he could have done from the Merchant
Besides, there's a fair chance I spawn another Prophet P.

Shame I didn't manage to get that last thought in before he wandered off, but he'll see it when he gets back I guess.

He's pressing me to hit at sooooo's Western cities ... that would cut off all trade between him and mh, I think? I must admit it's not something I've been planning for yet - been primarily preoccupied with mh - and have been delaying discussing somewhat.

Worryingly, it seems the Naval timeline has changed (I've checked last turn's save and it looks like sooooo could have sent over a chunk of gold to help him finish off the tech). With mh getting first stab at upgrades / builds, perhaps my "Pearl Harbour" strike is now out of the question, and I'm going to have to tread a lot more carefully to make certain he doesn't have a similar opportunity...

[Dreylin]

Ruff.Hi: Dreylin - I am fine with you swapping a Prophet for a Merchant
I can even act as the middle man so that you don't have to enter into any OB arrangement with Sooooo
(assuming I can gift units while at war)

me: Cool
Hmmm, maybe not

Ruff.Hi: I don't want the OB to slow down any possible war action by you against Sooooo

me: I've also been thinking about mh getting Combustion this turn

Ruff.Hi: going to play the save - will check back here before I finish

me: that meanshe has the head start on builds/upgrades
so I may not get my Pearl Harbour
but that would leave me free to strike at sooooo earlier

Ruff.Hi: I still think that you should be striking at his cities, not his navy ... destroy his ability to build ships and then you can clean up at your leasure

me: maybe so - take advantage of the Coastal bonus for favourable odds

Ruff.Hi: I cannot gift units to soooo - you will need to arrange alternate transport
however, feel free to run your Priest and Merchant through my lands

me: OK, I'll talk with sooooo and arrange logistics

Ruff.Hi: I'm emailing both of you to let you know that you can use my land if you want to

Ruff.Hi: Combustion is in - please swap for Physics

me: OK

Ruff.Hi: Oil also connected - request it if you want
I also left those messages in-game

me: Cool
re swap

Ruff.Hi: I was trying to build the Pentagon - missed it by 3 turns

me: Argh

Ruff.Hi: but got cash - so can start in on Artillary

me: the Merchant won't be able to share roads with your units, correct?
*Railways
& therefore will block yours

Ruff.Hi: going to continue round of infrastructure / new cities while I tech Artillary
right - will be a 1 square per turn travel

me: I just ran a WB test, and you can gift a laden caravel without having OB

Ruff.Hi: boat might be quicker
do the units go along with the Caravel?

me: yes

Ruff.Hi: do you have one handy?
that might be the go

me: somewhere nearby-ish

Ruff.Hi: send it over, dump Priest, gift Priest and Boat
Soooo returns boat and Merchant

me: exactly

Ruff.Hi: he did have a Caravel didn't he?

me: did


Ruff.Hi: lol

me: I thought I saw a second as well, but that may be a Frigate by now

So Ruff's OK with things, and even sent this note to sooooo and I:

Dreylin / Sooooo,

I understand that you guys want to swap a Priest (Dreylin) for a Merchant (Sooooo). So that neither of you need to worry about boats and the dangers of the high seas, feel free to run your respective Great People through my land. I will offer them tea as they pass by. Sooooo - please, only the Great Person and via the quickest route - I've issued instructions to my military regarding the Merchant so can vouch for his safe passage. I cannot vouch for any other unit that may tag along with him.

Ruff

Not really practical though.

Hey Ruff,

Thanks for the offer; the only problem I can see is that th Merchant may find the roads too crowded to quickly & easily pass by.

sooooo,

I ran a quick WB test, and it appears you can gift a laden Caravel without having Open Borders. The unit will be gifted along with the ship, so that will probably be the most straightforward solution. Now I just have to find mine and work out how long it will take to get over to you!

Dreylin.

[Dreylin]

t157 - I hear the discordant clang of another Spy being caught. <sigh>

Physics comes in and I offer it in trade to Ruff for Combustion. Since Flight is not yet available, I dial up Communism to mislead TOG as best I can. Sliders set to max-gold.

Istanbul: Hammam - Hmmm, new options here; Observatory, Airship, or more units. Much as I need more units & Airships are nifty, this is one of my top Beaker cities, so it really has to be an Observatory.

Bursa: Infantry - Infantry (can practically produce 1t Infantry, so Airship would be a waste of overflow hammers)

Konya: Frigate - the previous plan was to build a Galleon for later upgrading, but that plan may be out of the window. Let's investigate whether I can generate sufficient overflow to get a 1t Destroyer next turn. Max base production is 30h +100% for Drydocks/Forge/Factory won't allow me to get to the 134h needed. OK, I'll dial in a Galleon for now and come back to reconsider.

Samsun: Infantry - Infantry

Gaziantep: Infantry - Airship

Sarmatian: Lighthouse - Caravel (again not enough base production to overflow a Destroyer, and again a placeholder)

Izmir: Infantry - Infantry

Mecca: Coal Plant - Barracks

Najran: Infantry - Airship


OK, after a quick check, my Caravel is on the opposite side of the Ocean spying on mh's Northern cities so the build in Sarmatian stands for GP exchange.

Found Antalya in the final spot on the Island; gpt rises from 458 to 472! Starts a Workboat. I also found Zonguldak (really!?) in the SW for Bananas & Oil. I may well put the National Park in here, though it's not ideal using Jungle rather than Forest. Starts Granary.



Privateers are indeed prevented from creating a blockade within cultural waters; oh well, will keep them around and see if mh gives me a chance to hit his Caravel. (unlikely I know; particularly since it will have a GS onboard).

It seems I only have 3Workers in range to start Fortifying the Oil. I guess I'll need to request Ruff's after all just to make certain of availability next turn ... he'll be happy to have it off his hands, and since I'll be connecting mine next turn, it will be available to trade to him should he want it.

Connecting the Oil is going to exacerbate my health issues, so I request that Ruff cancels my Wheat gift when he passes me his Oil. I go ahead and offer him my Crabs though, as I'll be connecting a second source shortly.

I start gathering my newly-minted Infantry on the soon-to-be Oil Fort; it ill serve as a staging-ground for any Naval invasion. I will have 618g for upgrades next turn ... oh, plus the hammer-overflow conversion from Sarmatian - 633g.

[Dreylin]

A note to sooooo:

sooooo,

My WB tests says that I can gift a full Caravel and the unit goes along with it. I'll have a Caravel leaving Sarmatian with the Prphet next turn, and will be able to gift both the turn after. I figure it should take you an additional 2t to return the ship with the Merchant inside ... how does that sound?

Dreylin.

[Dreylin]

t158 - Well, lets see what (if anything) is going to go on with navies this turn.

Edirne: Infantry - Observatory

Bursa: Infantry - Infantry

Konya: Galleon - Transport?

Samsun: Infantry - Airship

Gaziantep: Airship - Airship

Sarmatian: Caravel - Destroyer

Izmir: Infantry - Infantry

Kufah: Infantry - Airship

New Damascus: Forge - Harbour

Mecca: Barracks - Infantry

Kayseri: Barracks - Drydock


OK, first to survey the lay of the land:



The lines represent the maximum distance from Mainz from which a ship would need to be positioned in order to bombard the city on the turn of the attack. Straight away you can see that some repositioning of the Ironclads is going to be necessary if they are going to be able to take part. They will need to if I want to get the defenses down to near 0% for the attack. (For reference: Frigate = 8%, Ironclad = 12%, Destroyer = 16%)

The second thing to note is the positioning of the transport ships: mh has just one Galleon positioned between his two cities (I suspect there's something on-board, but don't know exactly what). I currently only have a single Galleon in position (in Konya), but even if I upgrade it that only allows me 4units to attack a city on a hill with an Infantry & 2Rifles; all CG2,D1. I would feel much happier having a second Transport-full, however that would require an extra turn's delay in the attack. As a second arguement for delaying the attack an additional turn; if I attack next turn I would only have a single Airship in position to attack, with an extra turn however an additional 4 will be produced.

OK, so the attack will take place on t160, so this turn and next is for set-up. First thing to do is switch the builds of Konya and Sarmatian: a Destroyer that has its first move on t160 is more useful coming from Konya, since then it will be in range of Mainz, where a build from Sarmatian would not. Secondly, Sarmatian is 10tiles from Mainz, so the Transport can make it fine in 2t ... or I could move the Eastern Galleon outside the city and upgrade it. Hmmmmm, 3Transports are better than 2; I wonder if I can fill them all next turn ... yes, it does look like I can scratch together 12Infantry to be loaded onto ships next turn.

OK, so upgrading the two Galleons is going to cost 220g, so that means I can only afford to upgrade one Frigate or Ironclad this turn. I think the most versatile upgrade has to be the unpromoted Frigate off the South coast of Malatya; I think it could just-about reach every tile of the Great Ocean from where it is now! Other naval moves, I'll send the Privateers across towards sooooo, and cover them with the Frigate already on that side; the Galleon outside Malatya moves SE under the Eastern Ironclad, while the Galley (just-bumped from mh's borders) seeks shelter under the Northern fleet. I won't re-position the SW Ironclads this turn to minimise the chance of tipping mh off to the plan. Finally, the Great Prophet in Sarmatian boards the new Caravel, which promotes F1,N1 and moves beneath the Easten Fleet as well.

Hmmm, sadly it seems that I cannot base the Airships in Malatya and be able to use them to attack Mainz. I'll send this first one there anyway for use in spying on sooooo's Western cities & availability vs. mh's fleet.

OK, I'm having some trouble keeping track of mh's units ... further examination suggests that he's moving Rifles back from the frontlines and using them to replace out-of-date units in his backline cities. A look at the power graph shows that just maybe he's been getting a little complacent over the last few turns:



Research I'm going to leave on Communism, since I'm also going to leave my sliders at max-gold for another turn ... +460 = 2 more Destroyer upgrades. (BTW, the news from Strassburg is that mh ran max-gold last turn and has 274g in the bank (1Destroyer) and is showing 294g for next turn (2nd Destroyer & Transport))

[Dreylin]

Oh, and before I forget I received an e-mail from sooooo today and I'd better reply:

Hi Dreylin,

Yeah, sounds good. My merchant came from a city not that close to the
sea (it was from my northern city with marble, wheat and fish), so it
may take some time for him to board that caravel. I'll get him to the
boat asap though. If you'd like to gift me your coal I can railroad
the way and get him to you much quicker

sooooo

sooooo,

You don't need Coal, you've got plenty of Oil to power your Railways now. 9-)

Anyway, with just Roads it looks like 4t from Pharsalos to board a ship outsde Knossos. That would make it t161 to step on the Caravel and them move into my territory and gift, so I'll gift the Caravel to you oustside the city on my t160 and it'll be right there waiting.

Dreylin II.