Generic Lurker Thread

[Bobchillingworth]

Players, begone!

[Qgqqqqq]

Link broken.




I'm a bit busy currently so all the proper write ups are old stuff generated in an email chain with Bobchillingworth. The pictures have all been updated, but not the text. Map is modern version, but not fully mirrored yet.


So lets have a look at this map. Firstly, we have the start:


*The start has two possible starting locations in my estimation, the plainshill N-NE (this has a crab not visible) or the grass tile one N.
*Each site has a plains incense and a river desert hill gold. The intention of these is to prevent a ubiquitous tech path (such as was the case in my previous games) by enabling mining as a first rank-2 tech as an option. Because of the other strengths of the calender line, the gold is river and the incense is not, making it a more powerful commerce tile.
*The obvious difference is the plains-hill start versus needing to waste a turn. Because it is almost universally agreed that one turn for a PH start is a worthwhile move, I have added another piece into the equation, that is, the oasis tile which site 1 will be able to work from the start, which should increase the tech advantage of site 1. Site 1 also packs the irrigated wheat versus the floodplain and irrigated grass. Site 2 also gets the clam, and has Dereptus. Overall I think I have created an environment in which either choice works well and neither is definitively better.
*I will not give the starter settler bonus, but I will give vision in such a way that they can see anything they would be able to move to see on t0. I'm relatively certain that there is no other site within 5-10 tiles that is as strong.
*Overall I have created a much more hammer-based capital then in the past. Beyond the floodplain(s) and wheat(s) there isn't much river grass on which to build endless farms so I hope there is some consideration as to tech strategies, as well as towards the viability of Godking. I have, however, created a very high commerce and quite fast starting capital, which I hope should help alleviate some of the concerns with such a area.

Secondly, lets look at each of the regions for expansion, starting with the floodplains east.


In this direction we have what will likely be the players first expansion point, with irrigated wheat, irrigated grass and ivory or cotton. This area has been designed to be reasonably lush to allow expansion in this direction whilst also suiting with the overall "Hippian Plains" feel of the area, with rolling plains and pastures. A little further to the east we have the horse and cow, with the horse being close enough to be definitively theirs, as well as close enough to grab with a second or third city if a rush is wanted, but far enough away that they still have to work for it. A little while further, over a rather large desert, we have the first midpoint, the floodplains. The concept of this is in a relatively barren area these are a very powerful snowball region which can be grabbed, and an obvious point of conflict if you choose to settle right up on it. The area arround is more barren to stop these from being too strong. If not, however, there is enough that it can be peacefully shared if each player so wishes. There is the first mana available, which is on the river to make it more precarious/valuable. The incense + gold makes this a valuable commerce region also.
The gold is protected by a HN, strong, nomad, sentry Lion Pride (this has been altered from what I sent). This means it defends at 5str independent of the nearby citadel, i.e. it is easily catchable post-hunting, and provides a decent unit when captured, for either a sentry to the stack or a 5s 2-mover. Not going to break the game, but is a fun reward. Moreover, it protects a lion den, which should spawn lions until it is defeated, giving a decent but not difficult barbarian presence in this region. Unit AI is unknown of course

Now we look at the industrial south:


In this region we find a barren, hilly area which separates you from your other neighbor and is filled with minerals and valuable resources. The look I am going for here is the central region of pbem34, if you've ever seen that game, with a very valuable but barren centre. On the outskirts of this we have, of course, copper, which is placed so that I think it is relatively easy to access by both parties - only 4 tiles from the settler - but still not guaranteed. There is also a central marble which is within reach but may provoke conflict, and a bunch of other things to fight over, from Dragon Bones to mana. Here there will also be iron and mithrill aplenty. I may have over fertilized this region with floodplains irrigated corn and a oasis Pool of Tears, but they are difficult to sieze tiles and right in the centre so I'm happy with what I've done here. (This was a lot more barren at initial writing, but I feel the "feel" of it remains.
There is a fort with 2 weak archers in it. This will upgrade to a citadel eventually and provide some defence for the tiles around it. The purpose of these archers is to obstruct settlement of, or military expansion through the central mountains (which have railroads to facilitate access to one's diagonal neighbors) in the early- early-mid game. This area will still be explorable, but expanding into it should be awkward. The citadels into it were added to aid defence in this region.
There is also a strong, earth II, woody II bear guarding a bear den in this area. This fits with the inhospitably of the region, as bears will spew forth and obstruct exploration, and will also provide a fun challenge to capture, and an interesting unit to run around with. I intend to remove the earth II and replace it with Guirrella II.

This is the area to the north-west of the settler:



This regions is fraught with traps, from the Guardians to the spider, so won't be explored early on. It is a good backfill area, but obviously much less valuable because it is guaranteed to each player.

Islands between players:


Valuable with gems, seafood, sugar, backup copper and pearls, as wells as ICTR. Should be a worthy prize to anyone going for sailing.

Center Region:


There are railroads stretching through this region to serve as a quick route to the opposite players or a way of hitting their neighbors sneakily. Bob thinks players won't realise the affect of leaving these unpillaged if there is a raider civ, but IMO if they don't pay attention after a public service annoncement then their own fault (they will get a second one when this is sent out). Yes that is a Ice Oasis Ygg tile, for 6f 2c pre-scorch or techs.

Adventure Regions!

Number 1: The New World




Really lush central island in the other part, with unique dyes and rice, plentiful food and commerce, pre-placed ancient forests, pirate forts, hamlets and other improvements, protected by Gurid, gorrillas, tigers (Grand Menagerie should be possible for each player, though there's a good chance they never realise it) and the many, many lizards that will inevitably spawn. I should probably make this area even better.

Number 2: The Fiery Arctic


Located just above the Mirror of Heaven seen in the floodplains shot (but requiring astronomy to reach) this area is packed with seafood, unique deer, crabs and fur (swap out the ivory mentally), mana (including ice mana) as well as graveyards and huts. At the centre of this is a portal guarded by Acheron (portal area is slightly altered after bug-fixing). As any mapmakers in the room will now, portals default to the co-ordinates (0,0). Lets have a look at that tile:



In other words, instead of the traditional (and rather weak) Dragons Hoard, if you kill Acheron in this game, you get a heroic immortal. Probably won't alter a thing, but hey! Why not?



The Map

[Bobchillingworth]

Wow, you buffed the smaller center sea islands a bit- I thought you were considering actually going a bit in the opposite direction. Shouldn't matter too much either way, I guess.



From Sian's thread:

obivious first choice, as its what i've been thinking off for quite some time (since pregame of 32) is Decius of Calabim, with early Octupus Overlords, focusing on the protential synergy between Asylums (+25% Science +2Unhappy) and Governors Houses.

This screams "Trap! Trap! Beware False Synergy!" to me. First of all, unlocking Asylums means investing a lot of beakers into a religion which is not going to be terribly useful otherwise. Lunatics are not great units, Cultists are banned, Drown really have no business being built when you have Moroi, and, while a pretty good melee hero, Saverous can't keep up with Vampires because you can't haste him. The research invested in OO -> Mind Stapling could have instead been used for Drama (Sanitation bulb) + Construction, which seem vitally more important to me, especially if your gameplan involves a lot of whipping (which itself I think is kind of dubious, but whatever). And then, for the admittedly nice boost of +25% research in your cities, you end up with -3 happy per city when factoring in the Manor, which means less farms = smaller cities, fewer beakers, less benefit from the Asylums in the first place. Oh and some of your super-expensive Vampires will be useless 'cause they'll spawn with "Crazed".


Oh, and the OO culture won't be very useful either, since Flauros is Creative.

[Qgqqqqq]

Remember Sian is thinking Decius, Yell0w is thinking Flauros.

Yeah, I did a bit. I realised that I was making them a bit too dependant on already having later techs like BW and so on available, which only supports that strategy if they arrive at it as a natural progression, but Iwanted it possible to go for it early.

I am still very open to changes though.

[Bobchillingworth]

Interesting picks. This could end up being a pretty short game, since all of the civs can pull off a decent rush :P Thankfully someone () suggested you place more desert in the border areas, so Auric's Ice Elementals won't be quite as dangerous as usual.


Did you get rid of the Earth II Bears yet? You really should if you haven't already, they're going to be very difficult to kill, leading to huge stacks of bears accumulating in their lairs, which a Satyr can then instantly transform into a dozen dancing bears or a decent army.

[Dp101]

The map looks epic and very different in style to most RB maps.

[Qgqqqqq]

The map looks epic and very different in style to most RB maps.

Thanks!



Yeah they're going for sure. My playtest was very, very different to yours, BTW, with near constant war and the bears dead long before I could get Satyrs.

[Bobchillingworth]

Huh, interesting. Perhaps Mirror Universe Sulla can run a FFH AI Survivor game next. Thrill as Capria's 200-unit Tiger stack refuses to take a size 3 city for eight turns, and then leaves behind a single hunter for a garrison! Be amazed as a single Ritualist locks a CPU-melting army comprised solely of Thanes in place for decades on end! Gasp in shock as city-razing Basium triggers a blight which forces every civilization into a game-long death spiral, from which there is no succor but the score victory! Scream in apoplectic agony as every AI adopts FoL by turn 80, giving Sandalphon a religious win!

[Dp101]

Huh, interesting. Perhaps Mirror Universe Sulla can run a FFH AI Survivor game next. Thrill as Capria's 200-unit Tiger stack refuses to take a size 3 city for eight turns, and then leaves behind a single hunter for a garrison! Be amazed as a single Ritualist locks a CPU-melting army comprised solely of Thanes in place for decades on end! Gasp in shock as city-razing Basium triggers a blight which forces every civilization into a game-long death spiral, from which there is no succor but the score victory! Scream in apoplectic agony as every AI adopts FoL by turn 80, giving Sandalphon a religious win!

I am considering bribing Sullla to report this.

[Bobchillingworth]

Gah, thats what I feared, a perfect start for Flauros, a shitty start for elves.

Funny to see Yell0w come to the exact opposite conclusion I had during testing. I think I've got the stronger argument, but that's with the benefit of full map knowledge.


Not sure I agree with Barry's advice on settling, either. 1N makes more sense I think, losing the Clam isn't a big deal (is he really going to spend time researching early Fishing?) & that saves both a turn of movement and means he can work the Oasis from T0. Go Calendar -> AH -> AC -> Myst -> Edu and then barf cities all over the land while you tech to FoL, followed by a switch to City States. Calabim would have to play a more subdued opening, if they want both a decent tech rate and high-food cities.