Ride to ruin and the world's ending! (TBS, Becko & Joao)

[The Black Sword]

Ran through another AH sim, worker -> settler -> overflow Gran at size 3 that works a bit better. I guess there's no point sacrificing for an early granary that only affects 1 growth before the settler.

I'm fast running out of time to come up with a plan though, this turn pace!

[Becko]

Whoa, you're not kidding about the turn pace! Figured I'd have some time today to try to help you decide, but oh well. Great job on the sandboxing!

I've run through your openings at least, and while I'd need to double-check them with you (when are you getting the settler out in that last one?), I'm thinking that the AH first one does look better. I think Pottery before AH only works out if the capital can work a cottage or two on the way in addition to the granary, and I agree that doesn't seem very efficient. But go with your gut: it 's definitely a better guide than my advice.

If I understand the map settings correctly, the map is based on Lakes, which has a grid size of 16 by 10 on Large, which makes 64 by 40 counted in tiles (I think). PB9 used 35% water, which gives long, snaky lakes. Everyone's still on the same landmass though, even if Xenu should have added some islands. By the looks of it, we're somewhere along the north edge of the map, and should probably be looking southwards. The continent seems to be continuing east the way the scout is heading, so it'd be nice to get some info on our west fairly soon. Also, it might be good to consider chokepoints and canals when placing cities.

I like the look of the land too, but I'm still a bit doubtful about its usefulness for cottaging. Capital aside, the ratios of grass/other, flat/hills, and river/non-river are all fairly low, I think. Still, as you say, what's the option?

Am I getting this right in that these are our options for dotmaps?

• Purple dot seems fairly set.
  
• Green dot is on a plains hill, but green circle would pick up the same resources at the same culture, and would enable clams.
  
• Red circle is a nice site. Red dot shares the sheep but loses plains hill plant, wine, incense and river tiles. Only reason I can see for it is if we go with both green and blue circles and want to squeeze in another city 1N of the second pigs.
  
• Blue dot gets first ring pigs and plains hill plant but loses cow share and flood plains. Does enable a city on the desert across the straits.
  

Oh, and if you still need me to fill in for the next few days, you should probably post the details on the plan, if only for those turns. Believe me, if there's an opportunity to mess things up, it will be taken. :P

[The Black Sword]

I haven't fully checked out the Agri -> BW sim, but BW comes in about the same time as the first settler and then our workers have a choice between improving the deer or chopping. We're sacrificing a LOT for BW, so to not be able to chop immediately feels very weak. In the interests of keeping the game moving(and me not simming all Easter), let's just go with the AH plan.

Here's my current favourite:



Usual stuff at size 1, grow on deer, switch to farm when completed.



First warrior should probably scout west to check if the deer is any good? Probably want to turn him around to get back to guard our second city on time.



At size 2 we work cow for 1 turn to get max overflow from the next warrior, wines for 1 turn, trading 2 useless food for 2 gold.



Second warrior goes to defog as much of the north/east coast as he can before he needs to return to guard the settler.



Use the wines for 2 turns, then switch to the cow, worker ends on 58/60 the turn before the cow is improved. Then it gets 17fh for 15h -> 12h via expansive overflow.



Second city can be changed, but provisonally, road the forest and hill forest towards the sheep site. New worker goes to farm the cows, completing that road west of the city on the way in and out.



Just slow build the settler. Fair amount of overflow, which is usually a bad thing but we can use it for the granary here.



Overflow into the granary.



Second city immediately steals the wheat, we finish the granary with the phf. We can then use Avoid Growth to get the full granary bonus.

Any questions on that for the next few days? I'll probably get the next turn if it rolls in the next ~12hrs after that it's over to you.

Finally, here's the latest scouting:


You have a point about the lack of river grass elsewhere, there's a fair number of high commerce yield resource to make up for it a bit at least. IIRC Gaspar asked in the setup that the map be less green and lush than usual.

The Dotmap sums up the options nicely. I would mostly just focus on choosing the strongest second city site possible at this stage and ignore other concerns unless it was really crippling long term. A point against red circle now that we have scouted East btw, is that it invalidates the plains hill north of the second pig, which looks like a very strong site, picking up fish and gold as well in the BFC. Also, while we will put something in the purple area eventually, I think it will be some time down the line. Our borders will pop T50 and we can connect up the furs anyway then, so I think we're better off expanding into more contested areas.

[Becko]

Awesome plan! It works great in the sandbox, down to the exact overflow hammers. I've got 42 beakers into Mining EOT30, in case you want to check. You're being a great teacher for me here, too, so much obliged.

I agree that not having BW is a pain, especially in getting that second city up. Also, there's the military angle. What do we do if there are no horses within easy reach? I have no idea by which turn you should have reasonable defenses up in a game like this. From the scores it looks like everyone else has gone for food techs so far, FWIW (Thoth & Mardoc probably on AH).

You're absolutely right about the city choosing process too, and by the time we have a second settler out, we'll hopefully have a little more map knowledge of our western reaches. Strategic resources would be nice, too.

We'll soon be approaching the time when we should start meeting opponents. I guess it's more likely to be through us finding them than vice versa. Anything you'd like me to do in that case, other than not getting our scout killed?

[Mardoc]

(Thoth & Mardoc probably on AH).

Just FYI, I'm not on Thoth's team, just followed directions precisely so the turn could keep moving for you guys.

[The Black Sword]

We'll soon be approaching the time when we should start meeting opponents. I guess it's more likely to be through us finding them than vice versa. Anything you'd like me to do in that case, other than not getting our scout killed?

The scout is probably far enough from the capital that we don't need to know every piece of land, we can pick them up later. I'd say the priority is just to keep moving and try to get some contacts with him now. Just use your own discretion though, no hard rules really.

Thanks for filling in!

[Becko]

Just FYI, I'm not on Thoth's team, just followed directions precisely so the turn could keep moving for you guys.

Ah, my bad, of course you're not. I even saw the tech thread posts, just didn't make the connection.

The scout is probably far enough from the capital that we don't need to know every piece of land, we can pick them up later. I'd say the priority is just to keep moving and try to get some contacts with him now. Just use your own discretion though, no hard rules really.

Thanks for filling in!

Np, hope you're enjoying whatever you're doing.

T12 Report

Scout moved. Not dead yet.




End report

I'm taking screenshots, but I'll save them for a summary. Edit: I'll just paste the relevant ones into my reports instead.

[Becko]

This is a more interesting turn:

T13 Report

Ran into Oxy's scout (or he ran into us, we had contact when I logged in). Met him due east, currently on the same tile.



End report

I guess this means his capital is at most 38 tiles away from ours. Probably a bit less. :P

If my guesses on the map are correct, we are on a landmass that spans the globe (or cylinder), but there should still be enough water for the circumnavigation bonus. Might be worth a shot, given that only Oxy and we start with a scout.

...no, wait, Thoth is the other Hunting civ. So I guess everyone starts with a scout. Never mind.

[Becko]

T14 Report

Kept on heading eastwards with scout. Still no sign of land's end. Switched citizen from deer to improved wheat. Warrior due next turn.



End report

(No, I'm not embellishing very much here. Still, some report is better than none, right? Also, post count.)

[Becko]

T15 & 16 Report

Jinxed it. Scout ran out of land, start moving back and to the left.



Forest growth 1E of capital will mess with your micro in four turns from now. Worker moved to deer and started a camp.

Started moving first warrior to scout our west.

City currently working improved wheat and cow, plan says switch cow to wines next turn.



End report

I guess that's all the turn-playing you need for now? Don't think I messed up anything too badly. [Edit: Well, I probably should have checked that the micro worked out.] I'll get to work on adding screenshots later today (I'm on CET). [Edit: Done.]