[Spoiler] RB Pitboss #2 - Shaka of Rome

[Whosit]

OK, the turns are moving along now. We've finally hit turn 63, after going back a couple of turns. I think I know what I'm doing, but I just haven't been able to find the time to play in the ol' sandbox yet. Better do that tonight.

Anyway, here's a picture of the newest addition to the Empire, Byss:



Just an interesting thing to note: The Zulu would have had Iron in their city's first ring! Wow, that would have been nice!



And the situation up north. Should have Kuat founded next turn.



That's probably all the expanding I can do until I can improve my income. Currency will be nice, but so will a lot of cottages. Unfortunately, out of these 4 towns, only 1 is really set up for commerce. I can probably gear Imperial Center for more commerce, but with war on the horizon, I need the hammers.

I also want to send Nakor/DMOC a message. Haven't been able to decide what to write yet, though. I took note of Athlete/Kalin's warning, so perhaps I should try and court the Holy Roman Empire and do my best to create friendly relations and hope that they won't turn on me at a later date.

[Whosit]

Shot off this message to the Holy Romans:

Dear DMOC and Nakor,

I hope that you are both doing well. Considering that we are practically neighbors, I hope to keep in touch with you. I noticed that it appears that one of your warriors is heading east. Do you plan to continue in that direction? You will need Open Borders with the Empire to proceed, but we are willing to discuss that. There's not a lot to see out that way, but if you proceed, be careful of the natives.

I was also wondering if you have any idea who founded the two religions. I'm not sure how great a role religions will play in this game, but it never hurts to know who has what in case I need to "shop around," as it were. In any case, how are your relations with your neighbors? Everyone seems to be rather close together, and I believe that the close quarters is what sparked the war up north. Hopefully things will remain pacific in these regions.

Best regards,

Whosit, Galactic Emperor

There's really not an awful lot to say right now, and I'm pretty bad at starting conversations if I don't have anything in particular to say, but hopefully this'll get a ball rolling. I'd like to have friendly relations with possible neighbors.

Oh, and an Archer appeared in Wonsan. Archers and Chariots are what I'm likely to see. If plako puts too many archers in Wonsan, I'll just have to bypass it. At least Archers aren't that great on the offense. I'll need to check up on their teching again. They might have gone for Horseback Riding now that I think about it, and Horse Archers could be quite troublesome, tough Spearmen and Praetorians should still be able to handle them . . . .

Also just noticed this letter, so I'll be answering it:

Dear Whosit,

I am feeling better, so I answered your message.

> Your suggestion to coordinate research is an interesting one and deserves
> consideration. The fact that we will be unable to actually trade
> technologies makes it slightly less attractive, but in cases where the
> beaker cost and benefits of certain techs are roughly equal, this plan could
> indeed be useful. I am still working my way towards Writing, so I suppose I
> am riding your coat tails on that one. There are still some lower tier techs
> that I hope to research in the near future, so I'm not sure that will be
> very helpful to you. Sailing could be a useful technology for this world.

I am glad you found this idea good. If you don't mind, we could share
the techs we have already and maybe plans for the future? We have
Writing and everything below it, going now for HBR. We would probably
do Maths after.

> I am also curious to know how the war against Byzantium is proceeding. From
> what you have mentioned, it sounds like you are pressing the attack against
> their capital. Have you managed to cut off their supply of Horses? I would
> be interested to hear as many details as you are willing to share. Of
> course, I will be unable to alter the outcome of this war one way or the
> other. Although, if they are going to be eliminated soon, I suppose I won't
> need to worry about meeting them.

The war is going fine at the moment. We cannot take their capital yet,
but we pillaged and are waiting for reinforcements. It will be a while
until we'll be able to finish them off.

I wanted to also point out in your message some wording that may be
misunderstood "I will be unable to alter the outcome of this war
one way or the other" -- this almost sounds like you could help
Byzantium if you could I know you didn't mean that, but just
pointing out...

> I will stay in contact with both of you. It may be a little early to begin
> coordinating research, but I'm sure that it won't hurt to discuss
> possibilities.

You are right that it's a bit early, but we can start talking. If you
don't mind let us know about your future research plan.

Best,

Kalin for Team A/K of the Ottomans

My reply:

Dear Kalin and Athlete,

I am glad to hear that you are feeling better. Health is the bedrock of world domination, after all.

I am a little surprised to hear that you have everything below Writing. Imperial researchers must have been a bit sluggish. Then again, we did spend significant time on a more expensive technology: Iron Working, which I am sure is no surprise to you. Based on what we can see of the map, I believe that the Iron has been fairly evenly distributed. Every civilization, unless their leaders are asleep at the wheel, should have access to all the major strategic resources, it looks like.

After Writing, I will probably pick up Masonry, then head for Aesthetics. The Statue of Zeus would be an interesting Wonder to acquire, although I have not seen any sign of Ivory up to this point, so perhaps it would be a waste of time. I may slip in Sailing after that, but I haven't planned much further ahead.

Regarding the ambiguous wording in my last message, you are right: I did not mean to suggest that I would assist Byzantium. I believe I meant to say that I couldn't assist them (even if I wanted to, which I don't), so no tactical information you could give me could be used against you. It was meant to be a bit tongue-in-cheek, but it looks like the delivery fell flat. What can I say. I'm a statesman, not a comedian, it seems. If I had anything stronger than a Warrior heading north, I would try to assist you. But I don't, so I can't.

In any case, it sounds like we're not heading in quite the same technological directions, so that may be of some small benefit. I imagine that I will want to pick up Currency and Code of Laws sooner rather than later, though that might be a path we both head down considering how important those technologies are. Perhaps we'll have more latitude to choose once the most necessary technologies are out of the way.

Best regards,

Whosit, Galactic Emperor

Hopefully an adequate letter. I trust them enough to avoid hiding major pieces of information. So, yeah. I feel like I'm in a weird place right now where I'm having trouble gauging my progress. I guess it was easier when I didn't know anyone but the Koreans!

Also, the Korean towns seems to be making good cultural progress on disputed tiles. For Wonsan, I can see that because it's a 1st ring vs 2nd ring, but in P'yongyang vs. Carida, it's 2nd ring vs 2nd ring and I had culture there first. Any lurkers know how that might play out?

[Cyneheard]

They're gaining relative progress, but not absolute progress, if both of you have just a monument, and it's 2nd ring to 2nd ring.
Example:
T0: Carida finishes its monument.
T5: P'yong finishes its monument.
T10: Carida borders pop. 1 cpt in the 2nd ring.
T15: P'yong borders pop. Carida has 6 culture, P'yong 1. 85% Rome
T16: Carida 7, P'yong 2. 79% Rome.
T17: Carida 8, P'yong 3. 73% Rome. And so on and so forth. Eventually it would reach 51-49 (in something like 200 turns).

[Whosit]

Ah, I see. I suppose I was just alarmed by the rate at which the percentages were moving.

Anyway, my best estimate suggests I won't have 6 Praets until T80. That's 16 turns away. Neither of my two new towns will be able to contribute militarily by that point. I'll see if I can do anything to speed that up, but probably not.

Kuat needs a monument first, since half the hammer tiles are in the second ring. I was thinking Granary second, but it might not be worth it, so maybe just Barracks > Soldiers. Byss will do more Infra, since I just want commerce there.

I guess I'll see where things stand by T80. I expect Korea will continue to produce soldiers. Bleh.

[Jabah]

If you want to go to war asap, Kuat has enough production/food in the 1st ring for a while, between grasscow (4/2); marble plain (1/4 ?) and grass hill (1/3). It probably could be on smaller units quite quickly (spear / axe) after a barrcks (skip monument and granary for now ?)

[Whosit]

If you want to go to war asap, Kuat has enough production/food in the 1st ring for a while, between grasscow (4/2); marble plain (1/4 ?) and grass hill (1/3). It probably could be on smaller units quite quickly (spear / axe) after a barrcks (skip monument and granary for now ?)

Hm, I'll think about that, though I'd have to get Masonry before Writing. I'll try that out to see what happens, but I think that I'd really rather go for Writing first since it seems so critical. My current plan for it is Monument, which I whip into a Barracks (1 turn), and then do Spearmen for all of time (or at least the near future). I personally like that plan because it will open up the Copper tile and a second hill sooner rather than later. I will see what it would be like if I tech Pottery > Masonry > Writing, though.

Either way, it probably won't really start contributing until after I declare, but it should have just enough production to be able to aid in homefront defense.

[Whosit]

I have a fairly good idea about what I'm going to do for the next couple turns, but I will endeavor to hammer out the details and put up a detailed plan. I haven't written anything down yet (I should), but here's what I remember:

1)Cardia: Pretty simple here: Start training Praetorians and never stop. Once the Rice is farmed, work it until it grows to size 5, and then stagnate, working only mines.

2) Imperial Center: Worker > Worker > Praetorians. Whip the first Worker into the second. The grassland Iron mine will add some much-needed hammers to the city.

3) Byss: Work Boat first, with a Worker chopping into it. Then the fur will be camped, then they'll chop out a cottage with the lumber going towards a Granary. I want this city to grow quickly. Both hills will be cottaged rather than mined. Monument after the Granary.

4) Kuat: Current plan: Monument (whip) > Barracks > Spearmen. I'm going to see what adding a Granary would do there. I recall some of the lurkers suggested foregoing the Granary, but it's probably one of the best ways to improve the city's growth curve. The faster it grows, the more tiles it can work, right? Or, if there aren't enough improved tiles, I just whip it.

The Worker pair up north will pasture Kuat's cows, then double back and finish farming Carida's rice, then mine a Kuati hill, then perhaps build a cottage on the sugar near Kuat (I may work that tile to speed up growth).

I may end up doing Masonry before Writing after all, because a 1F/3H/2C tile (marble) isn't such a bad deal.

I'll have two workers working around Byss, and 1 lone worker putting in the last two mines for Carida.

One thing I haven't worked the timing out on is the attack. I'll want a Worker pair to put down some last minute roads. I think I can still get 6 Praets by about T80, and 8 a few turns later. Might be worth waiting for the 8. Where/when I attack depends on how many Archers Korea can spit out. Still, Archers alone probably can't hold off Praetorians for long. I can only wonder what they would be building if I hadn't declared war early.

Now for some of my correspondence. This is from the Mali:

Hello to the Imperial Empire,

The western side of the world has recently been too busy culling the local wildlife than to wage war on one another thus peace reigns.

How are things going around yourself? Through other people I gather plako (who I have not met) and possibly the ruins of Mortius are next to you. If thats correct I will be an interested spectator as to where you send your Praetorians first (oh c'mon you MUST be rushing someone right?).

Also I will be assigning half my EP's towards you until I have graph visibility, I intend to do this with all civs as best I can.

-Dantski

Since I'm about to reply anyway, I might as well include that here.

Dear Dantski,

I have no problem with you assigning Espionage Points towards the Empire so long as it is just enough to see our graphs. I plan to spend some on you, as well, at a later point in time--also for graph visibility only.

It's good to hear that peace reigns in your region of the world, though I believe that the wild life has given way to a more dangerous force. Barbarian humans have been seen roaming about the wilds, but hopefully you have not encountered them yet.

Regarding my neighbors (or lack thereof), your sources are correct. The Koreans are to my west, and the ruins of the Zulu are to my east. I do not know if or when I may go to war, but I imagine that any significant event will be heard through the grapevine.

I am not certain I will be able to explore your region as thoroughly as I would like, but I have seen enough of other locations to guess that each region has different resources nearby. My land has several sources of Rice and Clams, for example, as well as a Gold resource. Aside from the Furs, which I believe every Civilization has, what types of resources do the Romali have? Perhaps trades would be possible down the road.

Best regards,

Whosit, Galactic Emperor

Just trying to make conversation. I am also hoping to avoid confirming plans to attack Korea because I know that information could get back to them. Not that it really matters, I'm sure, but it couldn't hurt to be careful.

And now a message from HRE:

Dear Whosit,

Our warrior is heading east, so we will need Open Borders with you to proceed (which has already occurred in game at the typing of this email). We currently don't have an idea of who founded the two religions. We suspect that Speaker/Sullla of India have Hinduism because we finished Hinduism, and we didn't get the religion, while their score increased that same turn, and the religion was founded that turn.

This are relatively peaceful with our neighbors at the moment.

Sincerely,
DMOC of the DMOC/Nakor team for HRE

I don't know how close the HRE and the Koreans are, but I'm going to try and open the door for possible cooperation. Like I mentioned in a previous post, I'm taking the Ottoman's warning seriously insofar as a two-front war is considered, down the road. If the HRE is on my side, the Inca probably won't attack (because I'll hopefully have the Ottomans to cover my back). Or maybe I'll get run over. Who knows. But it's worth a shot.

Dear DMOC and Nakor,

As you noted, I have accepted your request for Open Borders. If you are heading east, I would prefer that your Warrior head due east through my territory (without taking too many detours), though he is free to make use of any roads that I have. There are many forests for your Warrior to use as cover as he travels east, though the journey would still be dangerous. If you happen to come across any Barbarians in that region, would you let me know so that I can adequately prepare for any incursions? That would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your guess on who has the religions. I am fairly certain that Byzantium founded Buddhism, but I don't think that India was the one that founded Hinduism, though I'm not sure. I seem to recall that several civilizations increased their scores on the turn Hinduism was founded, though I cannot recall which off hand. Because it does not appear that anyone has actually converted to a religion, it's hard to tell.

What are your plans for the future of your empire? I am hoping to find strong allies because I do not think that any civilization will survive without cooperation. It seems to me that cooperation between the Galactic Empire and the Holy Roman Empire is natural because we are close enough to help each other, but far enough apart to make military action against each other a foolish choice. For the time being, I believe that everyone is content to expand and lay the foundations of their civilization, but I am sure that once space begins to run out, tensions will rise, and we all need someone to watch our back, right? Let me know what you think.

Best regards,

Whosit, Galactic Empire

So . . . no subtlety with that last paragraph. And make no mistake, I do not think that a military attack against anyone but the Koreans would pay off at this point. If I am so fortunate as to win that war, I'll have a lot of space to expand into. Hopefully I can make it northeast as far as the Zulu starting area, and a bit further west of the Korean starting area. Only time will tell. I can't even be sure I'll win a war with Korea.

[T-hawk]

I was also wondering if you have any idea who founded the two religions.

Not sure how closely you've been tracking demographic information, but the 5 culture from the holy city shows up in the GNP numbers, which could be a hint to work it out. (Not a spoiler, I don't remember offhand myself who got the religions.)

[Whosit]

Not sure how closely you've been tracking demographic information, but the 5 culture from the holy city shows up in the GNP numbers, which could be a hint to work it out. (Not a spoiler, I don't remember offhand myself who got the religions.)

I guess that helps explain why the #1 is pulling further away in that area. I look at it every turn, though I don't have the charts for most of the others, so I'm not sure how to pin the #1 GNP on the right civ. But thanks for the tip. GNP is confusing since it includes so much.

[Whosit]

Here are my plans for the coming turns. There are two versions and both involve changes in Kuats build queue. The first goes Monument > Barracks > Spearman; The second goes Monument > Granary > Barracks > Spearman.

T65: Kuat: Monument; Byss: Work Boat
T66: Worker (2) Pasture Cows; Worker (1) head to forest hill
T67: Pottery > Masonry; Imperial Center: WHIP WORKER
T68: Worker (1) goto Forest Hill; Worker (1) start Chop; Worker (2) road Cow
T69: Chop goes into Work Boat; Worker (2) goto Rice & Farm
T70: Worker (1) goto Hill N of Carida; Worker (2) goto Fur; Carida work RICE
T71: Worker (1) mine Hill; Worker (2) camp Fur; Worker (2) goto Kuat Hill
T72: Kuat: Whip Monument; Worker (2) Mine Hill
T73: Kuat: Barracks; Worker (2) goto grassland forest; Imperial Center/Carida: Work Mine
T74: Kuat: Soldiers; Worker (2) road Hill; Worker (2) Cottage forest tile
T75: Worker (2) goto & Road Marble; Worker (1) goto E Hill; Byss: Work FUR
T76: Masonry > Writing; Worker (1) Mine Hill; Worker (2) Quarry Marble
T77: Kuat: Work Mine; Worker (1) goto Byss Hill
T78: Kuat: Work Quarry (not Mine); Worker (1) road Hill; Worker (1) goto Byss Forest Hill
T79: Worker (2) goto & road Kuat Copper; Worker (1) chop Byss Forest Hill
T80: Carida: Work MINES; Imperial Center: Work LAKE; Worker (2) head towards I.C.; Worker (1) connect Byss
T81: Move workers . . . .
T82: Kuat: First Spearman > Axeman/Spearman (6)
Kuat: Two Soldiers T88 (size 2)

Alternate:
T65: Kuat: Monument; Byss: Work Boat
T66: Worker (2) Pasture Cows; Worker (1) head to forest hill
T67: Pottery > Masonry; Imperial Center: WHIP WORKER
T68: Worker (1) goto Forest Hill; Worker (1) start Chop; Worker (2) road Cow
T69: Chop goes into Work Boat; Worker (2) goto Rice & Farm
T70: Worker (1) goto Hill N of Carida; Worker (2) goto Fur; Carida work RICE
T71: Worker (1) mine Hill; Worker (2) camp Fur; Worker (2) goto Kuat Hill
T72: Kuat: Whip Monument; Worker (2) Mine Hill
T73: Kuat: Granary; Worker (2) goto Byss Grass Forest;

T76: Masonry > Writing; Kuat: Granary > Barracks
T76: Kuat Grows: Work Mine
T78: Kuat Work Quarry
T79: Worker (2) head towards Imperial Center; Worker (1) chop Byss Forest Hill;
T80: Imperial Center work LAKE; Carida work MINES
T81: Kuat: Barracks > Spearman (6)
T85: Writing > Sailing? WAR!
T86: Kuat: First Spearman > Spearman (4)
Kuat: Two Soldiers T90 (size 3)

I am actually leaning towards the second one. While skipping the Granary gives me a soldier several turns earlier, the second one is only a little bit earlier, and I imagine that third will not be earlier (though I will play ahead further tomorrow). Either way, I think the Granary will make the city stronger in the mid- and long-term by allowing it to work more tiles more quickly. If the fate of my Empire relies on having an extra spearman a few turns earlier, I have not played a good game.

Oh, and my Demo screen from a few turns back:



I'm not doing quite as well anymore, but I thought this was nice. I'll try to get some more pictures up for next turn, an overview of the Empire and surrounding lands.

Edit: Quick thought . . . . If I march into Korea with 8 Praetorians (and an Axeman), and I find that the resistance is not as great as feared, I could probably split into two groups in order to harass two cities. I think that I would want to eliminate both outlying cities before taking Seoul. Wonsan will burn. I may want to keep P'yongyang, but we'll see if I get that far. The extra maintenance might be a pain, but it would save me a Settler.