The 3 person Underworld

[Lurker Wyrm]

After having read on GW Guru about people able to go down to the Underworld with just 3 people, I thought that might be something fun to try. Unfortunately, most of the times that I wanted to try it, America lost the favor, and the plan got put on hold. Well, this afternoon we finally had the favor and Green Gloom (as Ram Paige) and I (as Remy Borla) went down. I got the protection build on Ram and we went after the first two Aataxes.

We got smacked down.

After trying a few more times, we decided it wasn't going to work with our current skill sets and with just the two of us. Luckily, both Shao Lyn and Somewhat Zen were on at the time and decided to go with us. Ram switched to monk secondary and I tweaked my protection build, with Zen and Shao getting their builds set, and we went down again. As a 4 person team we were easily able to take apart the Aataxes that appear before you take the quest, which was quite nice. Unfortunately, once the squids (Creeping Darkness) appeared, they wouldn't stay locked on just Ram and came after all of us.

That didn't work out very well either.

At this point, Zen had to leave and it was just the three of us. Ram switched around some armor so that she could have a lower maximum health value, thus lowering the damage she received. Shao switched to all necro skills, including Mark of Pain. I kept the same build, only changed around how I did a few things. We went back down.

We kicked serious tail.

Ram ran up ahead and got all of the aggro, at which point Shao put Mark of Pain on the target, making for some great AoE damage. I kept myself just as busy as always with the protection. Stuff was dying really fast. When the squids came out, Ram got their aggro and this is where stuff got even easier. Without aggro on me or Shao, my energy was hardly ever not maxed out, except when I was casting Healing Seed to keep Ram at max health, and then it went back up to normal. I even I lagged a bit because there were 5 squids dying at once. After clearing all the patrols and whatnot, we went after the Dryders. That was a little nerve wracking, since they were using Mark of Rogdort and I wasn't sure if Ram would make it a few times, but she did. We cleared out and got the 5000 experience from the quest.

Next we decided to head to the Lost Soul village. We went through the squids on the way with just as much ease as we came to expect by then. It wasn't until we hit the Coldfires that things got a little dicey again, but only for a minute or two. Ram wound up getting the aggro of a group, as well as 2 patrols and, needless to say, there was a death involved. I Rebirthed her, but thanks to the spinning camera, she wound up dying again trying to get out. Fortunately, she was now far enough from aggro that we could Rebirth her into a "safe" area where the patrols didn't come. Once the protection went back up, we lured a group back and proceeded to lay the smack down on them. After about a half hour or so, we had cleared out pretty much the entire village. All that was left was a group with Behemoths running Nature's Renewal. We all decided it would be a bad idea to try that, so we went back to the Crypt Phantom guy for another quest.

This is where things got a little bad again. The enemies that appeared were Mesmers. They didn't break the enchantments, like I was expecting them to do, what they did was hit me with Conjure Phantasm, Migraine and Ineptitude when I went to cast Healing Seed on Ram. Things kept going downhill from there. Once I died, it wasn't long before Ram fell, and even though Shao was able to stay alive, the NPCs we were escorting decided to fight as well. As soon as one of them died, it was over.

All in all though, it was a very successful run. We got at least 10k experience and close to 1 platinum each. I had a lot more fun going through the UW with the small group of RB'ers than I did in the larger group of pubbies, even though I had a good time then too after a few players left (Soul Flayer should know what I'm talking about, I think Xyn was with use then too).

I told Shao I'd post the Monk build I was using, so here it is:
Healing: 10 +1
Protection: 10 +4 (Protection needs to be at 14)
Divine Favor: 11 +1

Healing Seed
Peace and Harmony
Blessed Signet
Protective Bond
Life Bond
Essence Bond
Balthazar's Spirit
Rebrth

To set things up, cast Peace and Harmony on yourself, then Balthazar's Spirit on yourself. Then, and this is the important part, put Protective Bond and then Life Bond on the person who will be tanking. The order is very important, because if it goes on in the other direction (Life then Protective) you'll have one dead monk on your hands. After this, put Essence Bond on the tank and if you want to, Balthazar's Spirit. If you maintain all 5 of those, you'll have 0 energy regen with Peace and Harmony active, meaning your energy source is now Blessed Signet, cast every 10 seconds as needed for 15 energy.

The good thing about Protective Bond is that it doesn't matter who tanks or what their armor is, because all damage will be reduced to 5% of their maximum health. Throw a few superior runes on and that becomes less than 20 per hit. Now, the most important thing is for the protection monk to stay very far away from the battle, except when casting Healing Seed on the tank. Once all the aggro has been put on the tank however, you can get into spell casting range so you don't have to keep moving up and back to put Seed on.

There you have it, 3 people going alone in one of the hardest places of the game. I'm not sure how well this would work in the Fissure since I don't know if there are enchantment removers there. I do know that there are monks who stay back, which probably wouldn't do a lot of good for the team. I'm willing to try it whenever we have the favor though.

[Green_Gloom]

Some comments:

It was fun taking on a couple of level 29 heavy melee hitters and not have to worry. Also the times when we got a bit of extra unanticipated aggro, whether I faceplanted or not. Mesmers were as expected the weak link for the build, though as stated above, not in the way we thought.

It is also a great lesson in how aggro works. Basic rules are as follows:

1) At aggro range a mob and its group will become agressive and move into attack range of nearest priority target (Monks usually have top priority). If a higher priority target gets within range before attack range has been reached switch to that.

2) If a mob can't reach the target due to being body blocked then it switches to one of the blockers.

3) Once within attack range the mob will continue to attack the chosen target until a) the mob dies, b) the target dies (go back to target acquisition), c) the target moves out of attack range, d) a higher priority target gets within attack range or e) conditions and hexes will be spread as much as possible.

4) If the target moves the mob will follow it to reach attack range unless the target moves faster. With careful maneuvering from the target you can force 2) into effect here.

5) Some melee mobs have a swarm AI where they try to get as many on a single target as possible, others prefer to split up and deal damage to as many different targets as possible.

With those in mind, once the chosen tank has started melee the rest of the team can join in as they wish. The last clause of 1) did both Zen & Shao in once each, being in the aggro circle while I was trying to pull.

Some further notes on UW:

Having a way of countering degen from both hexes and conditions would seem like a good idea. Convert Hexes, Mending at +3 or better, Healing Breeze or similar skills.

You should also be very patient and look for patrols. Some of them have a rather lengthy path and can surprise you at a very bad moment.

If you are melee then you more or less have to bring as many Block/Evade negators with you as you can. Bladed Aatxes spam Riposte & Deadly Riposte which can make for some bad energy & health situations if you're not prepared. You should also be aware that even if you do use a Block/Evade counter you'll still take damage (and condition) from both Riposte skills. With Ram I brought Swift Chop & Warrior's Cunning for this purpose. Aatxes are usually either solo or in a duo. Black minotaurs.

The squids are melee, steal energy and interrupt attacks (not too frequently though), compared to the Aatxes they're very squishy. 3-5 in a standard group.

Terrorweb Dryders are Fire Elementalists, they use Meteor Shower, Fireball & Mark of Rodgort. Their basic attack deals fire damage as far as I can tell. They appear through quests only from what I've seen, first quest has 3 grouped. Spiders, huge spiders.

Coldfire Nights are Water Elementalists, Ward Against Harm, Shard Storm & Maelstrom. Usually in groups of 3, can be grouped with Stalker Nights. Looks like black drakes

Stalker Nights are Earth Elementalists, Ward Against Melee & Aftershock are what I have observed so far. I'd expect Earthquake too, but I'm not sure about that. Groups of 3, can be grouped with Coldfire. Due to WAM they are higher priority for melee characters than Coldfire. Black lizards, more or less same model as the desert lizards.

(I may have gotten the names for Coldfire & Stalker slightly wrong, you should still be able to recognize them)

Ram's build wasn't too important beyond 3 skills: Swift Chop & Warrior's Cunning as mentioned above and Live Vicariously for a boost in healing. Other skills used in the 2nd and 3rd run were Penetrating Blow, Cleave (elite), Dismember, Axe Twist & Resurrection Signet (wasted slot). With Balthazar's Spirit I was gaining good adrenaline so I could use my skills frequently. As a warrior you'll want to focus on a single target at a time, most of the time.

You should also not be afraid to respec your build completely to fit in there, as long as the build you make is useful to the team. The first quest will give you 5000 xp if you complete it, earning you 20 refund points.

[WarBlade]

With those in mind, once the chosen tank has started melee the rest of the team can join in as they wish. The last clause of 1) did both Zen & Shao in once each, being in the aggro circle while I was trying to pull.

The interesting thing about the time that I stuffed it and got my little zen archer squished was that there were many occasions where she had been in much the same position (in relation to the group, aggro circles etc). The difference that time was I saw the target call come up and reflexively went for the "T" key . . . and watched in horror as baldy let fly an arrow.

*sheepish look*

If I understand the intracacies of the whole aggro mess right, then the ataxicab thingamabob may have re-prioritized on Zen at the point of the arrow hit. Just standing still she may well have been left alone.

I might have to experiment with this. Get someone to wake up some devourers outside Ascalon with a weak longbow and just stand Zen behind or beside the team mate and see who the creature goes for. It would be interesting to see if monks truely are the top priority or if monks-actually-doing-something are the trump.

[Cyrene]

Thanks for the build info Lurker W.

I've been meaning to ask about this.

Thelonious has seen her effectiveness drop off in the desert, and I was meaning to ask for some other approaches to try out and see what worked for her.

I'll give some of these skills a try.

I've been particularly perplexed by the Protective Skills, as most of their descriptions seemed especially lame.

I'll try out some of the ones you are using to good effect and see if they work for me.

--Cy


***battening down hatches for dennis****

[Sirian]

***battening down hatches for dennis****

Dennis the Menace.

Stay safe.

[KingOfPain]

Guinea pig, a.k.a Jinni Jinx, ready and willing

Even if you want to try for 2 person Underworld


KoP

[Lurker Wyrm]

The 2 person UW probably won't work. The killing speed is just too slow for it to really be of any use. Basically, in the time it takes to kill the Aataxes at the start (there are about 10 or so of them), the 3 person team could have cleared the first quest.

Cy, the thing about this protection build is that it can only protect 1-2 people at a time. Even 2 can be a bit risky since you'll be runnning energy degen, combined with the fact that Essence Bond no longer works the way it used to (meaning you have to have it cast on the target to get the energy, doesn't work with being cast on you anymore, at least not according to the latest testing). If you're really interested in running a protection build, you'll need pretty much need to have Mesmer secondary so you can use Mantra of Inscriptions to get the Blessed Signet charged in half the time, and thus give you the energy to keep things going. If you did want to do that, I'd suggest a build I saw on the Basin forums, consisting of Mantra of Inscriptions, Blessed Signet, Life Bond, Life Barrier (elite), Bal's Spirit, Arcane Echo, and Aegis. That'll put some massive protection on the entire party that you can keep up pretty much all the time (granted, you'll be using the signet on a very regular basis since you'll have -10 energy degen with 15 maintained enchantments).

Good luck with Dennis.

[Cyrene]

Thanks for the suggestions.

Power is back here (obviously) and it looks like we got a very lucky roll on this storm.

It was looking *really* grim this morning, then (except for winds) it kinda petered out.

As much as I think I'm living in a backwards state, Ivan (last year) taught a few lessons, and the state was ALL over this one. Hopefully, they will maintain this level of preparedness.

--Cy

**has a 2 am call on account status at both locations (yawn)**

[KingOfPain]

The 2 person UW probably won't work.

What more incentive do we need?

KoP

[Green_Gloom]

What more incentive do we need?

KoP

It's not that a 2 man UW won't work, you're just back at a killing pace that makes a naked, no stat, skill less sorceress going through Act 5 Hell seem like a turbo blender.

Well not quite, but it is very slow unless your "Tank" is extremely good at beating down level 28+ mobs with good armor. The Protector will not have energy or time to add damage.